
@Oprah, don’t watch show but nice Duke speech. take own advice and make difficult decision to pull support from mccarthy, save lives. kthxbi
And now the long version:
Dear Oprah,
I have to confess, I have never watched more than a few minutes of your show. Probably not the best way to start a letter to you, but I want to be honest. And the truth is, I think you’re making a terrible mistake.
Last weekend, I spent more time listening to and watching you than in the rest of my life combined. My family and I were sitting in the Duke stadium, looking down on the thousands of giddy graduates (including my older brother), the esteemed faculty in their rainbow regalia, and the charming, if a bit over the top, fake castle festooned with flags representing the different academic schools. I had no idea you were the commencement speaker until the student speaker, Robert Paul Jones, pretended to get a cell phone call from Parking & Transportation services about your limo double-parked in front of the chapel.
Having only seen you in short commercial clips and on the cover of your magazine, I wasn’t sure what to expect from your speech. I was pleasantly surprised. You were warm and funny, your voice clear and yet dressed with feeling, and I am sure you meant every word. Over the course of those 20 or 30 minutes, I developed a great respect for you as a talented speaker.
But I couldn’t leave the stadium wholly inspired by you, as I’m sure many others did. To me, it is clear that a significant number of people look up to you, and trust your advice and judgment. That is why it is such a huge mistake for you to endorse Jenny McCarthy with her own show on your network.
Surely you must realize that McCarthy is neither a medical professional nor a scientist. And yet she acts as a spokesperson for the anti-vaccination movement, a movement that directly impacts people’s health. Claims that vaccines are unsafe and cause autism have been refuted time after time, but their allure persists in part because of high-profile champions for ignorance like McCarthy. In fact, ten of the thirteen authors of the paper that sparked the modern anti-vaccination movement retracted the explosive conclusions they made due to insufficient evidence. Furthermore, it is now clear that the study’s main author, Andrew Wakefield, falsified data to support these shaky conclusions.
We have come close to eradicating life-threatening and crippling illnesses because of vaccines, but are now struggling to prevent outbreaks because of parents’ philosophical beliefs that vaccines are harmful. Realize this: when someone chooses not to vaccinate their child, they aren’t just putting their own child at risk, they are putting everyone else around them at risk. Diseases with vaccines should normally be of little concern even to unprotected individuals due to herd immunity – with the majority of the population immune, unprotected individuals are less likely to come into contact with the pathogen. Unfortunately, herd immunity disintegrates as fewer people are vaccinated, putting everyone who hasn’t yet been vaccinated at greater risk for infection. Now, the rates of infection by diseases for which we have safe and effective vaccines are climbing, thanks to anti-vaccination activists like Jenny McCarthy.
You reach millions of people everyday and your words and endorsements carry an incredible amount of weight. If you say to buy a certain book, people will buy it. If you do a segment on a certain charity, people will contribute. And if you say that what Jenny McCarthy is saying has merit, people will believe you.
As your speech drew to a close on Sunday, you mentioned that you still make difficult decisions from time to time. You told us about a show where you had the exclusive first interview with the author of a prominent book on the Columbine tragedy. Despite days of promos and confirmed broadcast schedules, you decided to cancel the show at the last minute because it had a negative energy, and you didn’t want to be responsible for sending that dark energy out into the world. You didn’t want to be responsible for someone seeing that show, feeling that dark energy, and going out to commit another Columbine. You said that you followed your gut to make the right decision.
Maybe your gut is being silent on this one, so let me speak up on its behalf. You have another decision to make. Pull your support from Jenny McCarthy and her platform of anti-vaccination. Because while the Columbine segment raised the specter of potential future tragedy, anti-vaccination propaganda is causing more and more people – mostly children – to fall sick and die from preventable illness as I write this. Jenny McCarthy could be considered responsible for a significant number of these; you can imagine what might happen if you give her influence over your audience of millions.
So Oprah, I hope you take my letter, and the well-intentioned if sometimes harsh criticisms from many others in the blogosphere, to heart. Because even though I still don’t watch your show, others do, and they listen to you. Probably not the best way to end a letter to you, but I want to be honest.
Shirley
P.S. My dad – for whom English is his second language – calls you “Op-er-a.” Isn’t that cute?
Update 5/18/09: Due to much reposting on Twitter, Facebook, and other blogs (including Bad Astronomy!), this post already has over 5,000 views! Small potatoes compared to many blogs but it’s a big deal for this one.
Thank you all for the unexpected, enthusiastic, and civil responses. Now the question is – what should we do next? What is the best way to leverage whatever momentum we might build to get Oprah to pay attention?
Orac has a lengthy post dissecting Jenny McCarthy’s recent “scientific” video, “Biomedical Treatment 101″.


Beautiful. How do you get her to see this?
Send it in here?
https://www.oprah.com/plugform.jsp?plugId=1985511&referer=http://www.oprah.com/ord/
Oprah doesn’t care what you have to say. She has already made up her mind. And besides, you have failed to prove her wrong. There are hundreds of conflicting studies on this subject. The vaccine manufactures have been caught doing all kinds of shady and illegal stuff. Since you seem to trust them and your government so much, just take your vaccine and shut up. If they work so well then you have nothing to worry about right?
No, actually there aren’t “hundreds and hundreds of conflicting studies”. And where is your evidence that “the vaccine manufacturers have been caught doing”…well, anything illegal or shady at all?
This post, however, is very typical of someone who simply doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Not surprising at all for an obvious anti-vaxxer.
I don’t want to be too redundant, but the last reply was correct. There have not been hundreds of conflicting studies on this, just a few tidbits of pseudoscience.
I’m sure the pharm companies have dirty laundry. There is too much money there for people not wanting to tamper with it (as there is with many industries). In this particular instance, that is irrelevant. The bottom line is many vaccines are necessary to keep us healthy.
You clearly don’t know what you are talking about when you say that we have nothing to worry about if we are vaccinated. What about are babies who are not yet old enough to be vaccinated? When ignorant people don’t have their kids vaccinated, it puts others who cannot be vaccinated at risk. Ultimately choosing not to vaccinate your child can kill another person.
All of this because you chose to listen to an attention seeking ex playboy bunny rather than the medical community.
I don’t want to be too redundant, but the last reply was correct. There have not been hundreds of conflicting studies on this, just a few tidbits of pseudoscience.
I’m sure the pharm companies have dirty laundry. There is too much money there for people not to tamper with it (as there is with many industries unfortunately). In this particular instance, that is irrelevant. The bottom line is many vaccines are necessary to keep us healthy.
You clearly don’t know what you are talking about when you say that we have nothing to worry about if we are vaccinated. What about our babies who are not yet old enough to be vaccinated? When ignorant people don’t have their kids vaccinated, it puts others who cannot be vaccinated at risk. Ultimately choosing not to vaccinate your child can kill another person.
All of this because you chose to listen to an attention seeking ex playboy bunny rather than the medical community.
The one point I agree with as that we may not need all of them so young. We do definitely need to be vaccinated against the measles. I only bring this up because that seems to be one of the main shots brought up over and over again. Other shots such as hep B, I simply don’t know enough about. Then again neither do the antivaxxers who claim they do. I guess that’s why there are educated professionals out there who research these kinds of things. Do people still realize this? Remember back in the day when you took biology, chemistry, physiology…? There are people who have studied these things diligently and have dedicated their lives to “real” science and health. FYI: Jenny McCarthy is not one of these people.
Jenny wants vaccines greened and safe for all kids. Face it kids these days are getting way too many too fast. Hence the rise in Autism. My son has Autism and I full heartedly believe due to vaccines. Informed choice and spacing out vaccines is being responsible. Have you seen the ingredients you are injecting into your kids. if you looked you may also have second thoughts and refigure the pros and cons of allowing injections of so many at such a young age. 3-4 vaccines at a time on top of unknown milk intolerances, gut issues and antibiotics is asking for trouble in the immune system. Space them out and take your time is a strategy that all can live with. With the rise of both parents having to work and daycare being the option parents are in a rush to vaccine and meet state requirements to enroll children in daycare and preschools. This is yet another trend to look into. With daycare also comes illnesses due to developing immune systems, small children and poor hygiene or sharing of toys, cups and more. Happens no matter how hard you try to keep things sanitized. Jenny offers informed consent to families facing too many too fast with ingredients that make your heart sink. If your going to judge and make comments I think you should be aware of the true issues. Parents are trying to make a choice they can live with. Would you willingly give cancer, asthma, ADHD so on to your child? I think not. Many parents are only asking to be allowed to space vaccines out gaining time for the immune system to develop. Also asking to take out unnecessary and toxic ingredients that on their own are life threatening.
Thank you Jenny and Oprah for taking this on and being the voice of so many children who are yet to be vaccinated! Informed choice – Please green our vaccines!
Julie
Standard Disclaimer : (Yes, I read all the ingredients that are put in my food) (You should take a portable spectographer with you the next time you go outside, you would be surprised by all the “Toxins” you are inhaling.) Even if you greened everything, the world creates millions of tons of cough “Toxins” a year.
Lets look at this . . .
—
Too Many/Too Soon – Well, for most anti-vaxxers, Please read this
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=466
Its important. Actually read it too, not just skim it. The Information you want is there. It might take a little while.
—
Milk Intolerances – We have only had the gene that allows us to drink cows milk or lactated animal milk for the the last 30 to 40 thousand years. Its a relative new gene, and not all the bugs have been worked out. I`m sure you can send a letter to Mother Natures Product and Development team.
Anti-Biotic’s – Well, I might give this one too ya. Not that it has anything to do with vaccinations or Autism. Just that many people don’t take anti-biotics correctly which have led to many strains of virus’s that have become resilient.
Life-styling – Well, that is just silly. Yes, kids get sick at pre-school, or kindergarten or where ever kids congregate. I guess you should send your kid out wrapped up in layers and layers of bubble-wrap. Just watch out for kid holding a pin.
Jenny does not want ‘greened vaccines’ that is her propaganda to suck in all the parents that are terrified that vaccines are harming their children (contrary to scientific evidence) What Jenny wants (in my opinion) is for the world to see her as a pioneer, a poor woman dealing with the supposed ‘tragedy’ of having an autistic child. A child whom she admittedly allows unorthodox, non approved so called medical treatments and experiments on.
Lupron is not a joke. Injecting a child with a larger dose than is recommended for precocious puberty is not sane or safe.
I have seen the ingredient list for vaccines, as well as the scientific studies on these ingredients and the impact on child health. Perhaps you should actually look at the research.
My last parting shot, Julie, is that one does not GIVE their child ADHD. Such disorders are not contagious they are genetic.
What exactly does green vaccines mean anyway? And I don’t just want to know that it means to take the crap out. My question is how? while also keeping these vaccines effective. I swear one of my biggest pet peeves is when people say that SOMEONE needs to do something. Can someone please tell me why this bunny is getting airtime on this issue?
What a ghastly, arrogant and ignorant piece of text. What about Ian? http://www.iansvoice.org Pleople don’t just get autism Shirley, they die.
Iddo: Google Juice might work. See FF discussion: http://friendfeed.com/shwu/1e268870/open-letter-to-oprah
I am sure you have seen this website . I first heard about it thanks to Alan Dove on TWIV ( this week in virology podcast). Its the Jenny McCarthy Bodycount
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html
This is a very nice letter and I sure hope it has the desired effect.
I wonder when people will stop taking advice that impacts their health from untrained professionals
That was excellent, far better than my post on the same subject. I really hope she sees the light and pulls the plug on McCarthy.
Thanks, everyone!
@Hari, yep, Jenny McCarthy Body Count puts things in new perspective. I think I linked to it in the post, though not too obviously.
We’ll see if anything comes of the combined outcry.
Shirley: actually, your link to JMBC is broken (one “http” too many)
Thanks, Iddo, fixed.
2 days later and this post is in the top 10 Google results for “open letter to Oprah” or “letter to Oprah”.
Now if only Oprah actually reads it…
Quite a step out of character for a self professed introvert, but I am proud of you. Keep writing, Shirley Wu.
Very nice letter. I hope that it, and other similar letters, have an effect.
BTW, thanks for the link. I hadn’t heard about This Week In Virology. I will need to go check it out.
Derek Bartholomaus
http://www.JennyMcCarthyBodyCount.com
Well said! I have a son with Asperger’s. Vaccinations most definitely did NOT cause his form of autism. I am appalled that Oprah, with her good resources for research, would support someone so un-scientific as Jenny McCarthy.
Very well written. I agree with others in asking, “How do we get Oprah to read this?” Everyone please share with your wife, mom, etc. which is the Oprah target demographic IMHO. Tell them to contact her and make sure this letter is read. I am tweeting the link now. Thank-you for writing this Shirley!
Absolutely perfect!!! Excellent job!
Hi, great letter, love the point, although i’ve seen Jenny’s interviews and she does state that she is not anti-vaccine, she wants them “green” and spaced out. I don’t think even a little bit that vaccines caused autism in either of my boys. I can’t say for certain that this is the case for all children. I’m not a scientist or a specialist or a doctor. I do, however, find it very disturbing that Jenny McCarthy is the voice of autism. I don’t feel that she represents the real families or has any idea of what we go through. There is no cure for autism and she readily says that her son was cured or recovered. She sells false hope and takes money for her books from parents who are told their child has autism by someone who may make it sound as if their child had cancer. She profits off of others fears. If she cared about autism so much, she would take that money and actually help families with the real issues – schools, teachers, therapies, equipment, service dogs, living expenses. I wish Oprah had the real story from real people, not some playboy bunny with the mouth of a sailor. Just my two cents….
It’s ASD, some of it can be helped some can’t. She went through just as much as the trauma as everyone else. She took her responsibility seriously. She went through the same hoops most parents went through.
Well stated. I hope you and your family are doing well. The only point I don’t totally agree with is that she is not anti vaccine. She has stated this. However, now that we have youtube, it is easy to watch what she has said in the past. I have noticed a trend of her “clarifying” previous statements. But, if you go back and watch some of her previous videos, she said exactly what she had been accused of. She has flat out said that the mmr shot gave Evan autism. She said it was the thimerosal in that shot. She also said that the doctor yelled at her when she asked about it (she is a chronic victim). Then she said that all the ingredients in the shots may contribute to autism…and it could be any shot or just the accumulation of them. She has also said that autism is not a mystery. I could go on, but why bother. Her opinions have changed over time.
I am also baffled that we are bombarded with bad info from a playboy bunny with a mouth like a sailor. I really don’t understand why opinions/stories from other people like you don’t seem to have merit. They do in my eyes. I guess it’s not good tv.?
Well stated. I hope you and your family are doing well. The only point I don’t totally agree with is that she is not anti vaccine. She has stated this. However, now that we have youtube, it is easy to watch what she has said in the past. I have noticed a trend of her “clarifying” previous statements. But, if you go back and watch some of her previous videos, she said exactly what she had been accused of. She has flat out said that the mmr shot gave Evan autism. She said it was the thimerosal in that shot. She also said that the doctor yelled at her when she asked about it (she is a chronic victim). Then she said that all the ingredients in the shots may contribute to autism…and it could be any shot or just the accumulation of them. She has also said that autism is not a mystery. I could go on, but why bother. Her opinions have changed over time. By the time this is posted, her opinion may change again.
I am also baffled that we are bombarded with bad info from a playboy bunny with a mouth like a sailor. I really don’t understand why opinions/stories from other people like you don’t seem to have merit. They do in my eyes. I guess it’s not good tv.?
Great letter – are you a fan of hers on Facebook? Try sending it to the magazine – the front section should have letters to the Editor – if you get it to Gale King that would be a good start.
My two teens are autistic, but not from any vaccine, I believe it is in the genes. Their father is paranoid schizophrenic and Alzheimers is in my family genes.
Great letter! Thanks for writing it!
The thing that boggles the mind is, what, exactly, is Oprah thinking? She’s a smart woman. She knows the kind of power she has. I really wonder, in her heart of hearts, with no one to answer to but herself, what is she really thinking?
Right on. I can’t stand Jenny McCarthy. I can’t stand the way she tries to foster mistrust of medical professionals and scientists with her woo. And then she turns around and sells books and advertising slots for worthless treatments and false hope.
[...] a follow-up to my recent Oprah post, here’s an open letter to Oprah asking her to reconsider giving Jenny McCarthy a voice on her own show. Please, Oprah… read [...]
@TriciaK
McCarthy’s position when she started her little crusade was the assertion that thimerisol in the MMR vaccine caused her child’s autism. When that was proven wrong many times over, she then shifted the goalposts to where it stands now. All this while she never once admitted that her first stance was wrong, nor with any apology to those she may have hurt. And the evidence for her current position? There is none, but why should there be, she has books to sell.
I am so glad that someone else realizes this!!!
This was an excellent letter. I shall give it a shout-out on my blog.
Cheers,
Matt
The Skeptical Teacher
I agree with everyone hereÑ this a terrific letter. Keep the good fight?
[...] An Open Letter to Oprah [...]
Great letter. I will do my best to bring readers to it.
What a well-written and important letter. Thank you for writing it. I have heard about the anti-vaccination movement in a positive light from my own mother and relieved to see such claims do not seem to bear water.
I’d like to suggest that people who retweet this also include @oprah and #letter2oprah so that maybe it will become a trending topic (and maybe @Oprah’s staff will see it).
Thank you! We will work to spread it as widely as possible…
I just wanted to say that I agree with you on all of this.
Back when my son was a baby, the media was going crazy over Wakefield’s study into the MMR vaccine. That plus the fact I have friends with kids who have autism who SWORE that the MMR did it.
I put off getting his MMR by almost a year longer than I should have because I was so scared that he would get autism.
He was diagnosed with Autism a year later.
I am not an expert but I seriously doubt the MMR did it. In that year it took me to decide whether or not to get him vaccinated, I researched everything I could find on the subject. I spoke to doctors, scientists, directors in the health service, etc. It was the hardest decison to make as a parent so far. A lot of parents will just BELIEVE Oprah because she is who she is. I don’t know much about her (she’s that twitter chic with a million followers, right?) – I don’t watch her show, and I know even less about Jenny McCarthy, but. Huge names promoting anti vaccination?! Not good. For all the reasons you said.
Anyway, yeah. I agree with you.
Sarah
P.S. No, I don’t have regrets about getting my child vaccinated. He’s A.MAZ.ING, funny, smart and gorgeous. And his memory is like a superpower. I wouldn’t take the autism away, even if the MMR did it, incase it takes a bit of him away.
Your points are well taken. I think since Autism has evolved into ASD a better medical description is needed of it. I often don’t understand what people are refering to.
It’s amazing to me that people still think Jenny McCarthy is “anti-vaccine”. I can’t count how many times she has stated SHE IS NOT ANTI-VACCINATION! For some children the schedule MAY be problematic. But again, she has stated many times she believe vaccines are necessary- it’s the USA’s schedule that is in question. DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU WRITE OPRAH A LOOOONG LETTER that begins and ends with false data. By the way, children with Autism are treated and it’s because of early intervention. It’s really sad you don’t see it. AND, there are plenty of doctors out there helping Autistic children recover. DOCTORS! That’s where Jenny McCarthy gets most of her information from.
If vaccines caused my son’s Asperger’s, then how would Jenny explain its appearance in my brothers-in-law, their grandfather, and the generations prior that received no vaccinations?
I truly hope Oprah considers your letter, as well as to the many voices of Autistics who aren’t looking to be cured in the first place.
They are saying the cause is environmental. Even the pro vaxxer doctors will admit there is a very small change a vaccination might cause ASD. But that the odds of that are worth the risk considering the lives vaccines save.
could a family genetic grouping be more suspectible to Asperger’s? It might.
Great letter!
Hope some good will come from it – I’m spreading it as far as I can, hope others do the same.
PS – you might want to fix the typo in “Yours truly”
The “Yours turly” is a reference to the book “Yours turly, Shirley.” I’m guessing the author has decided to remain anonymous.
http://www.amazon.com/Yours-Turly-Shirley-Paperbacks-Paperback/dp/0590428098
autism can be CURED? well fuck me there’s a stupidism if ever I heard one.
A genetic disease with environmental factors!
I can’t be bothered beating you with any of the training I’ve had on this subject (professionally I mean) or any of the research I’ve done in my line of work, as well as for my son.
carry on….
They mean ASD. Some of the disorders in it can be helped. Especially if caught earlier on. You’re a professional? You’re off target by lumping ASD as autism and saying it’s all genetic. The effort has changed since you were educated on it.
YOU are not up-to-date on the research. ALL the current research from the top scientists researching ASD indicates *genetic* factors as the cause of ASD.
Vaccines have NOTHING to do with ASD. Jenny McCarthy is doing as severe disservice to the public health of this nation (and anyone else stupid enough to take their medical advice from someone who takes their clothes off for money). “More green vaccines” is a smokescreen. She is anti-science, anti-vaccine, and is doing more damage than she will ever be able to repair. She was less dangerous when she thought her son was an “indigo child.” Remember that?
My son received all his vaccinations on schedule. Thankfully, our preschool requires all the kids to be up-to-date on their vaccinations as well. This isn’t the case in public schools here.
RT’d. Not that i have many followers. Nice letter though.
Wow… well written and eloquent, and cited too! Fantastic letter.
Thank you for writing this letter. I really hope she reads it and actually thinks about it. It is really scary that people like Jenny McCarthy have the power they do. If only people like Oprah were to put their amazing financial and media capabilities to better use. Well done!
What a lovely and well written letter.
I pledge to do what I can to assure that it seen by many – if not Ms. Winfrey herself.
Thank you for taking the time on such an important issue.
[...] http://shirleywho.wordpress.com/2009…tter-to-oprah/ [...]
We should try not to forget that it’s not only about the vaccine’s. With all of the hoopla surrounding the JM phenomena, people seem to forget that vaccine or no vaccine, children with autism are here and they need interventions, educations, and a whole host of services. By hyping up Jenny and her vaccine/diet/whole host of other “cures”, tried and true autism interventions are left out of the story. For instance, Applied Behavior Analysis is research based using peer reviewed empirical data and shown to have the biggest impact on individuals with autism than any other method. Also lost in the hype is the fact that JM’s son received 40 hours a week of intensive ABA from the Lovaas clinic at UCLA, the best of the best. Where is that in the story? It is hard work on the part of the child, the family, and the therapists, but it is very, very effective.
Excellent letter; have you sent it via her program ideas at her website?
[...] letter to Oprah An excellent letter, and needs to be broadcast far and wide. I hope it gets to Oprah, and that she takes it to [...]
Well said! I hope she see your letter!
[...] all of today writing a scathing letter to Oprah condemning her new endorsement, but luckily this charming and intelligent woman has already done so. I think this letter pretty much sums up how we all feel about her supporting [...]
@nas
The “doctor” that you refer to in your dismissive and condescending comment is none other than Andrew Wakefield, who in his 1998 study condemning the established scientific protocol for vaccinations also suggested the spacing out of the administration of vaccinations. Yes, that was his recommendation from that study. We know now that that study was debunked at every level, and Wakefield himself faces sanctions including the loss of his license.
In other words, you can call him a quack.
I repeat: There is not one scintilla of evidence to support what Jenny McCarthy advocates, contrasted to the growing evidence that supports the fact that her position is detrimental to the lives of our children.
Here is the study supported by Jennie McCarthy.
http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html
“I can’t count how many times she has stated SHE IS NOT ANTI-VACCINATION! ”
yes but it comes off very much like a person who starts their sentence with “I am not sexist I just feel women shouldn’t be police officers” or “I am not racist I just feel black people are less intelligent”
Just because you prefix your sexist/racist comment with a statement saying you are not does not make it true, just because jenny starts off saying “I am not anti-vaccine” does not stop her spewing every anti-vaccine nonsense she comes across with the effect of reducing vaccination rates.
If she is not anti-vaccine then she sure as hell has the same effect (to a greater degree) of those who are.
Murdats,
Point of order. There are average IQ differences across cultures. Now, one there are many reasons one can advance to explain the disparity, and many caveats to add to ensure that this fact doesn’t get taken or used the wrong way, but I don’t know if it makes one racist.
Adam,
Intelligence is a poorly defined concept and IQ tests are notoriously flawed, which is why any discussion of race and intelligence is dangerous. Not to mention race itself (in terms of genetic components) is quite controversial.
Either way, we are getting off-topic…
Hi. Great letter. There’s a typo at the very end though – “yours turly” instead of “yours truly.”
I am a special education resource teacher. I’ve worked with several parents of students on the autism spectrum. One parent insisted that vaccinations caused her son’s autism. This parent had told me she’d been doing heroin and coke while she was pregnant with her child. She told me about her belief about vaccinations and her drug use in practically the same breath. For some reason she didn’t seem to see that her drug use could have caused all sorts of problems for her son.
Your letter is great! I hope Oprah reads it.
ouch now I am a thread troll. You’re saying that Heroin and Coke use were more likely the cause of the autism? I am not sure you would even want to say that????
sorry i am perceiving most of these supportive commenters as illiterate as they claim Jennie McCarthy is.
To me that just proves there are questions unanswered. Do we thing Merck is any more reliable then AIG? both big businesses built to make money. Not too concerned or pushed to be concerned by anyone to be ethical.
Er reading this comment over, I believe that the author is actually making a statement about how this parent thought vaccines more harmful than her drug addiction, and never once gave a thought to the harm she very well could have been inflicting her unborn child. I’m afraid your eagerness to attack anyone whose opinion is different than your own is making you a less trustworthy source of information, you may want to be careful of this. I say this as a person with a sibling with Asperger’s who hasn’t yet gotten enough information to choose a side, as I am seeing opinions and insults, and no references to back them up. Which really is to be expected in the comments section
If the shoe fits!
Indeed, you are a thread troll.
There is a website outlining why McCarthy is wrong: http://www.stopjenny.com. For some reason, these facts get ignored over the claim that McCarthy’s kid is cured. We haven’t seen evidence that her kid is cured though, and he is home schooled.
Why does she get away with this????
His own grandmother says mommy McCarthy is not being honest, but Oprah is giving her a show anyways. So, McCarthy can also give misguided information about fruit juice being a “sugar substitute” even though it contains fructose JUST LIKE the fructose used in the corn syrup she is trying to avoid. McCarthy is clueless, and this makes her advice not only wrong, but dangerous.
generation rescue feeds McCarthy her misinformation, and she is the front for this unethical group. They both need to be exposed and stopped. Oprah always ignores the evidence in favor of crazy claims-look at the platform she gave Suzanne Sommers too. It is time she stop doing that, and start learning why these people are wrong and stop putting her fans at risk of following dangerous and wrong advice.
Fructose isn’t the same as high fructose corn syrup.
Vaccines are as green as they possibly could ever get, and you get more dangerous antigens and “toxins” in your body just by just breathing normally every day. Spacing them out (there is no evidence that there is any good reason they should be spaced out) only causes children to be left open longer to harm from the diseases vaccines need to prevent. Vaccines contain less antigens than the diseases, so therefore vaccines pose less of a burden to the immune system (see the vaccine page on stopjenny.com). McCarthy and generation are simply either ignorant or deceitful when they talk about vaccines. If McCarthy isn’t “agains” vaccines and is not “antivaccine”, then she needs to stop lying about them and learn the facts instead of listening to Handley and repeating everything that is completely false about vaccines. People are antivaccine if they base their decisions on lies.
Is this false?
http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccine_information/vaccine-ingredients-possible-adverse.htm
One of these vaccines has sorbitol in it which I am extremely allergic to. I wouldn’t want it unless teh sorbitol was removed.
I’m vaccinated but I don’t think anyone here has read about the opposition.
Bingo! You’re vaccinated. You’re still here. YOU received all the ingredients, including the sorbitol.
The “opposition” is not based on ANY scientific grounds– just a bunch of conspiracy nuts. All the studies you are citing have been debunked as vaild scientific studies.
Pretty much everything posted over at Generation Woo is nothing but quackery.
Excellent letter!!!! Hope you’ve sent it? If you’ve not, please do so.
—————————————————————-
http://gospelcentre.wordpress.com/
The “doctors” that McCarthy listens to are not representative of the majority of ethical doctors that use evidence (kids are not cured of autism) rather than unproven anecdotes as the basis of their practices. Dr. Jay Gordon also claims to cure ADD with questionable methods. Handley, the head of generation rescue, is no better. The DAN doctors claim to cure autism with chelation, but haven’t shown anyone one actual case of a cured child, but still they charge for this dangerous treatment that has actually killed some children.
http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2007/08/dan-doctor-charged-in-chelation-death.html
So, McCarthy does listen to some doctors, but not the kind that don’t profit from claiming vaccines caused autism.
As an Aspie and a self-advocate, I want to thank you for this articulate letter.
Hi, I found you today in the list of fastest growing WordPress blogs, and I’m very glad I came to see you. Your writing is so simple and heartfelt, and what you addressed to Oprah was wonderfully sensitive and not blaming. Don’t stop baking bread, but do keep blogging!
Former San Franciscan, now a decade in Portland, OR, which also is beautiful and home to great food and wonderful readers.
Donna Cunningham, http://skywriter.wordpress.com
Many thanks for a much-needed, both concise, correct and warm-hearted letter. Let’s spread the word, so Oprah can not ignored it. Hopefully.
It’s now up to #2 on Google under “letter to oprah”. I’m putting the link on my Facebook. And congrats on the thesis and the job. Best of luck for all.
Well writen. Best of luck.
If you really think that there is no evidence of a link between vaccines and autism, read Evidence of Harm by David Kirby, and then tell me who you think is falsifying data.
Jen,
Here is the data:
http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
California has not been using thimerisol in any vaccine or injectable for the past 15 years and yet they have the one of the highest rates of autism in the nation. David Kirby’s hysteria has no merit whatsoever. A theory disproven by the data.
Thanks everyone, for reading and commenting! I’m a bit overwhelmed by the response but it seems actually sending the letter to Oprah somehow might make sense now…
Just a few notes –
@Lindsay, @TheTokenSkeptic: The typo “Yours turly” is actually deliberate. It’s a reference to a book I read as a child, called “Yours turly, Shirley”. But I realize most people won’t catch that so I’ll likely change it if I actually send the letter.
To those who mentioned autism treatment, yes, there have been great advances in diagnosing and treating autism. My letter wasn’t specifically focused on autism, though, but on the danger of the misinformation JM is spreading and the danger of Oprah supporting JM, for while traditionally it has been parents of autistic children who subscribe to the vaccine argument, now we are seeing parents of otherwise healthy children being swayed.
To others claiming evidence of links between vaccines and developmental disorders, etc: Here is the problem with “evidence”. Anecdotes are not evidence. Reproducible, replicated studies supporting statistically significant findings are evidence. The debunked Wakefield study was none of these things, so it should not be used to support claims that vaccines cause X. The fact that it has been and anti-vaccination proponents have not since acknowledged that the Wakefield controversy undermines their position suggests they have a separate agenda.
Modern medicine is not perfect, but it is becoming more and more evidence-based. There will always be exceptions, but medical care will become better for more people as long as we continue to support scientifically rigorous medical research. Alternative medicine is alternative because it hasn’t yet been proven to work consistently.
As some of my friends have observed, most of those who object to vaccination (barring religious reasons) need to realize that their opposition is a luxury people in other parts of the world don’t have. Many of us live without fear of diseases that used to be commonplace, and which still affect those in the developing world who are not vaccinated. Vaccines are proven to work in the vast majority of cases. Would you rather risk the minute chance that the vaccine would cause an adverse effect, or the almost certain chance that your child would contract measles or some other preventable disease if exposed (and the chances of exposure rise as fewer people are vaccinated)?
“Alternative medicine is alternative because it hasn’t yet been proven to work consistently”
Umm, no
Alternative Medicine just means it is not mainstream
If it was proven to work consistently, it would BE mainstream.
– an epidemiologist (working to prove consistency)
LOL, “heartsong.” I can smell the body odor and patchouli already…
Very well done. I will send it to as many people as I possibly can.
And from a writing standpoint: brava, as well. I love how you bracketed the letter with the “not a good idea, but I want to be honest” part.
Not really a big fan of Oprah but here is some more research you can do…been researching it myself for sometime.
http://www.novaccine.com/
Thanks for your comment. That site is potentially interesting, but obviously (if the URL isn’t already an indication) is not balanced. If there are any objective websites on vaccines (and some would argue government websites do not qualify), I would love to see them.
There are definitely potential side effects of vaccines, but also potential consequences from not getting vaccines. I don’t think anyone is advocating that we not investigate and improve the safety and efficacy of vaccines, but simply linking to personal scare stories and painting the medical establishment as a bogeyman is not productive either. What it does do is make more in the public distrustful of medicine and science in general, which is anti-productive. And people who think those trumpeting the miracles of probiotics and “natural supplements” don’t have something to gain as well are just kidding themselves.
I also cannot take seriously a website that claims to be a reputable source of information for vaccine education but does not do even basic policing of its discussion forums. Every single forum I looked at on novaccine.com consisted of blatant pornography spam threads. Doesn’t do much for legitimacy.
Unfortunately and gravely so there is no such thing as a balanced vaccination website. I’m admit I lean more towards the dangers of vaccines than the benefits of them. I myself was not vaccinated as a child and have a very healthy immune system. I have been overseas (Including 3rd world type countries like the backwoods of Mexico and Jamaica, non resort areas) and have never conducted any life threatening disease.
The problem with much of the research run for making vaccines safe is run by the drug companies themselves. And lets face it folks it is all politics. Drug companies will hardly shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to paying out money. Vaccines are money my friends. I am not at all saying that none of them work but I am saying that they are not entirely safe. We shoot up a small child with the same amount as we do a full grown adult. There is no compensation for size. Many of vaccines are for convince and not for public health. For example the chickenpox vaccines. I’m sorry small children do not die of chickenpox and in fact if the receive it the conventional way it will actually prove as a better immunity than being vaccinated.
As for autism, no there is not any proof. And not much research on the subject either. Say a drug company did come out and say that a vaccine did cause the disease. What would you say happens then. Law suites waiting to happen folks. I don’t think we will ever know because the research will never be done.
“I myself was not vaccinated as a child and have a very healthy immune system. I have been overseas (Including 3rd world type countries like the backwoods of Mexico and Jamaica, non resort areas) and have never conducted any life threatening disease.”
Because the plural of “anecdote” is “data.”
“The problem with much of the research run for making vaccines safe is run by the drug companies themselves. And lets face it folks it is all politics. Drug companies will hardly shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to paying out money. Vaccines are money my friends.”
And altie practitioners don’t charge an arm and a leg for their “treatments.”
“Many of vaccines are for convince and not for public health. For example the chickenpox vaccines. I’m sorry small children do not die of chickenpox…”
However, they *are* more vulnerable to shingles later in life. Do you have any idea how painful shingles are?
“As for autism, no there is not any proof. And not much research on the subject either.”
Wakefield’s flawed research was the only source for the lie that vaccines cause autism.
Good grief, I could create an Altie Woo-Woo Bingo Card just from your comments alone.
Vaccines, far from fearfully harmful (see ya polio, you wretch!), have really helped those of us who are fortunate to receive them in our communities.
We need to find ways to help those for whom routine vaccinations are still out of reach.
Can’t we blame autism on pvc’s or microwaves? Or perhaps there is a genetic cause not yet identified… It’s no good to go around pushing bad information on people as if it were bad religion. It’s science. Totally different worlds here.
I am a special educator that has worked with many children within the autism spectrem. I fully support this letter!! I will pass it around as much as I can. Thank you for writing it.
Here’s another powerful awareness raiser…
Brian Thompson created “The Jenny McCarthy Song” and video that paints a rather scathing picture of the damage McCarthy is causing.
Jenny McCarthy is not ‘anti-vaccine’, she is ’safe vaccine’ and there is a BIG difference. I am concerned about the number of vaccines given at one time and before the age of two. There are no studies to say that is safe, and there are no studies saying it’s not safe. I see why parents might want to err on the side of caution especially with children that are prone to seizures or other neurological disorders. ‘Too many too soon’ (which is Jenny’s catch phrase) is something to consider.
There actually are such studies… lots of them.
Good starting points for researching these studies are the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services and the Centers for Disease Control web sites. Here’s a useful index of information:
http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/vacsafe.htm
When assessing the risks, there are two important factors to consider: 1) what are the risks of being vaccinated? vs. 2) what are the risks of NOT being vaccinated? How do these risks compare?
No one will claim that any vaccine is 100% side-effect free. But the risk*severity of vaccines is WAY more attractive that the risk*severity of polio, rubella, measles, etc., etc.
There are risks to wearing automobile safety belts, but most people understand that the risks to NOT wearing them is even higher, so they wear them. The same is true for vaccinations. The risk of NOT vaccinating children is MUCH greater than the risk of doing so.
McCarthy says she is for safe vaccines. Vaccines ARE safe when compared to NOT vaccinating. Can they be safer? Yes, until there are zero side effects, they can be safer. But McCarthy is claiming they are not safe the wrong reasons. She is claiming that vaccinates cause autism. This has been very, very thoroughly debunked. There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism.
McCarthy’s argument against vaccination is analogous to arguing against the use of automobile safety belts because safety belts cause autism.
McCarthy’s arguments are not supported by evidence and are causing harm.
No, I want to see the studies specific to the safety of numerous vaccines given at one time and the neurological impact that may or may not have on a newborn. I want to see the studies on spacing vaccines. Those are the ones that don’t exist.
I agree that studies have shown that vaccines do not cause autism, but do the number of vaccines cause a genetically predisposed child harm? Does spacing vaccines help with that? Would waiting until a child is two or older help with that? Is there a test that can help a parent determine whether or not their child is at higher risk for a negative neurological impact? Where are those studies?
Take everything that is being said here and second and third it for both me and my husband.
Also point out that children who are not vaccinated CANNOT claim that they didn’t get sick even though they were not vaccinated. They actually didn’t contract wone of these deadly diseases becase they were protected by what is called “herd immunity” (because the majority of people are vaccinated and therefore are not carriers. They would lose that protection if no one got vaccinated.
Let’s not bring back the times when childhood diseases such as whooping cough and measles claimed the lives of so many, when odds of children making it to age 12 was the exception and not the rule.
“There are no studies to say that is safe, and there are no studies saying it’s not safe. ”
Untrue.
These are the FDA requirements for vaccine approval:
http://www.fda.gov/Cber/vaccine/vacappr.htm
Making sure drugs/vaccines are safe and effective before they get to the market is one of the main reasons WHY the FDA exists. This is their job, and they are quite good at it. The FDA might not be perfect, but their tendency IS to err on the side of caution.
Lady Why:
>>I agree that studies have shown that vaccines do not cause autism<<
But McCarthy is waging a massive campaign against vaccinating children based on the (false) claim that vaccines do cause autism. So, large numbers of people (who don’t take the time to research the scientific liturature) rely on claims of celebrities like McCarthy (and here boyfriend Jim Carrey) and actually don’t have their kids vaccinated–at all.
The “too many too soon” argument is the newest positioning of McCarthy’s anti-vax stance in an attempt to deflect criticism base on obvious flaws in her original arguments (first, that she was the mother of an Indigo child–she isn’t; then, that vaccination causes autism–they don’t).
But even given that latest objection, the vaccination schedules are NOT random. Vaccination scheudules are the result of much (scientific) thinking; which is ongoing. Here is a good starting point for more info:
http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/schedule_whysomany.html
The bottom line is that the net effect of McCarthy’s campaign against vaccination is causing harm.
I’m sorry who is doing the studies? There is a problem because research is always biased to who is doing it. Until we have parties that are doing the studies that are not benefiting from the cash flow we will not see anything is unbiased.
>>I’m sorry who is doing the studies?<<
There are many studies, by many different parties. See for example, two pointed out by Jim H in his comment below:
http://shirleywho.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/an-open-letter-to-oprah/#comment-832
But this is now starting to sound like a Big-Pharma-Conspiracy argument. First, there are many independent studies, but let’s even grant that they are all secretly in callusion… even then it is a weak argument; here’s why:
You are not questioning whether vaccination causes autism (as McCarthy claims it does) but whether there are neurological problems caused by giving “too many too soon”. It makes no sense for Big-Pharma to push through a vaccination schedule that causes harm if one that spaces vaccinations out over a different time period would be safer. Either way, everyone gets vaccinated and they make money every time. If they could show even greater efficacy or safety, they would jump at the chance to show people that their (profit making) vaccines were even more necessary.
There are very good reasons why precious resources are not easily diverted into investigating highly implausible hypotheses.
“The notion that children might be receiving too many vaccines too soon and that these vaccines either overwhelm an immature immune system or generate a pathologic, autism‐inducing autoimmune response is flawed for several reasons: …”
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/596476?cookieSet=1
[...] through the ‘net and through Twitter, and I’m throwing my weight behind it too. This letter, written by Shirley Wu, is perfect, and I hope beyond hope that Ms. Winfrey will see it. Here’s an excerpt: To me, it is clear [...]
Absolutely wonderful letter!
Specifically I’d like to see the studies that measure the impact of numerous vaccines and their impact on a newborn neurological system. Does anyone know of studies specific to that?
All that information and more is available at stopjenny.com
Our immune systems are tested every time we breath, and there are less antigens in the vaccines compared to the actual diseases. So, unless all the antigens we breathe in every day overwhelms our immune systems, then there is no reason a vaccine (that contains even less antigens) could “overwhelm” the immune system. McCarthy doesn’t understand how vaccines work, or she wouldn’t believe they could “overwhelm” the immune system. The more people learn about vaccines, the more they can see just how wrong this “theory” is.
[...] An open letter to Oprah May 18, 2009 — Skepdude READ THE FULL ENTRY AT “SHIRLEY WHO” [...]
Lady Why,
Not difficult to find. For example:
Large scale safety study of a liquid hexavalent vaccine (D-T-acP–IPV–PRPnot, vert, similarT–HBs) administered at 2, 4, 6 and 12–14 months of age*
http://is.gd/B4yx
There are hundreds more. Neurological evaluations would be reported, if observed, as a “severe” effect such as encephalitis/encephalopathy if observed at all.
or this http://is.gd/B4Ag
Well written, Shirley. I wrote a similar letter to Larry King last month, But it was not nearly as well done.
http://freephilosophicaldiscussions.blogspot.com/2009/04/open-letter-to-larry-king.html
Wonderful letter. As a father of a not-yet-immunized 8 month old, I constantly worry that some of our more “hip” friends with children might decide to follow McCarthy’s advice. I look forward to the day when I feel my daughter is safe from the Measles – at 12 months when she gets the MMR shot!
Very nice letter.
If I recall correctly, McCarthy once claimed that her child was special because he has an indigo aura.
Has anybody ever conducted a study to see if there’s a correlation between indigo auras and autism?
I think the correlation is actually between having an “indigo child” and being a total moron, especially one who doesn’t feel his or her child needs to be disciplined.
We are still building this page (so forgive how horrible it looks right now), but here is a great resource for debunking the anti-vax pro-disease crowd: http://factsnotfantasy.com/vaccines.html
And to those that assert that Ms McCarthy isn’t anti-vax, her stance is actually quite well documented in her unreasonable assertions and strawman arguments. She can deny it with words, but her actions are those of an anti-vaxer. From the linked page:
* Pro-disease anti-vaxers want vaccines that are 100% safe. This is never going to happen, as all medicines carry some risk. However, the relative risk of injury from vaccines is significantly lower than the risk of injury from getting the disease naturally. For more information, see the CDC website (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm).
* This is so important, I’ll say it again: The only people that insist vaccines are (or should be) 100% safe are the anti-vax pro-disease advocates.
Thank you so much for this. As a current medical student, my main exposure to many of these truly horrifying diseases is through textbooks. It it a true tragedy that these diseases are now re-emerging thanks to such misinformation.
Thank you for your well thought out and presented letter. I truly appreciate your effort.
Hear hear!!
I also appreciate your effort. I hope this is read and something is done about it. People listen to Oprah and it really irks me when she gives bad advice.
I’m thinking that if Oprah is not willing to ditch Jenny McCarthy, her next logical step is to inform parents and concerned citizens of their ethical obligations once they have chosen to delay/skip vaccination. Really delve into the CDC’s recommendations for potential carriers of deadly diseases. If you choose to become a public health risk, the least you can do is minimize your damage.
The thing that annoys me most about McCarthy and company is the argument style. If someone cites a study you don’t like, invent a study that you can insinuate might be in conflict if it were ever actually done. If that avenue fizzles, cite vague fears about autism. If anyone challenges your “facts” about your experience with autism, go ahead and call them unfeeling and share an emotional anecdote. If anyone tries to pin you down on anything, “I’m just sayin’” will win any conversation. Who gives people this playbook? It’s brilliant, but stupid.
Thank you for this excellent letter-it’s a good start!
Jennifer Lopez has started pro-vaccination PSAs. Wasn’t really a fan, but its good to see a glimmer of sanity amongst the rich and famous.
[...] here’s a great letterwritten by a bioinformatics grad student at stanford. [...]
An excellent letter. Unfortunately, unless Oprah happens across it one day while surfing, she’s not likely to see it. Her people probably actively work to prevent her from “accidentally” seeing things like this. “You’re contradicting the Oprah, therefore…you must be wrong. EVERYONE knows Jenny’s all for safe vaccines and spacing them out!” Yes, we know that…that’s why we want her silenced.
So, my suggestion: print it and mail it to her via snail mail. Everyone, print it and mail it. Get your friends to print and mail it. When her offices are flooded with them, she’ll take notice. It’s easy to ignore millions of e-mails and tweats. It’s impossible to ignore millions of copies of the same letter showing up on your doorstep.
@Tony: Gotta get the snail-mail address on this thread.
@Lady Who: The other evidence for the safety of multiple vaccinations in a newborn: basic frickin’ common sense.
Babies’ immune systems come in around six weeks and are amped up for battle. They encounter millions of new proteins daily. Everything: mother’s milk, formula, mother’s sweat, the cotton or other fabric of the clothes, plus the laundry detergents and fabric softeners. The dander and fur of any pets. Their first sniffles, courtesy of big sis. The dust on the furniture. The mud and insects that they invariably eat before the age of one year, not to mention every food, has hundreds to thousands of antigens apiece. Everything they ingest, breathe, or touch gets sorted in the newborn.infant/toddler period.
Interrupt this and you get atopy (allergy).
So the five or so proteins in your average vaccine? Give me a break.
Good letter but your persisting in repeating how you do not watch her show, I believe, will make your letter less likely to have any serious weight in terms of consideration. Assuming by some wild chance she sees it.
While you have raised some valid points, you almost muted them at the same time.
It is like saying to someone, I know you are a highly reputed hunter and I am sure you catch huge animals, but I am not acquanited with your skills, *yawnn* however since others say that you are, I am taking this opportunity to ask that you do not hunt the “White elephant” because it is an endangered spieces. Okay….. so is that encouragement or just some ego remark to show.. that the hunter aint as great as he thinks he is?? Sure sounds like it.
If your objective is to get Oprah to review and rescind her support of Jenny McCarthy, it (i.e. your letter) is probably not going to get the implied outcome indicated in the rest of your post.
Anyway, if I were Oprah, and thankfully, I am not.. I would read your letter with the disinterest with which you regard a fly in the midst of a dirty butchers shop.
Good letter– bad intro–bad closing.
Great intentions tho! I wish you well
LM
But I was just being honest.
Seriously, though, if someone who does watch her show wants to write a similarly-intentioned letter, I’m all for it.
This started out as simply a way for me to express how conflicted I felt after seeing her speak for the first time. She’s a great orator and I can understand why so many people adore her. But as someone who hadn’t really been exposed to her before, the potentially uplifting experience was marred by the knowledge that she may not have thought through this most recent endorsement.
I appreciate the comment, and if I’d intended at the outset to get this into Oprah’s hands maybe I would have written it slightly differently. That was just how I felt at the time. So, I encourage everyone to take this letter and make it better, or write your own. I’m sure a thousand letters are better than one!
@shwu: Your letter is wonderful. (Just look at the passionate comment thread it spawned!)
I agree with lawyermommy that the letter–in this exact form–is not the perfect single arrow to break through the insulating bubble that must be surrounding Oprah. But it will take more than a single perfect arrow, it will take hundreds, maybe thousands of good, strong arrows and your letter is certainly one of them.
Everyone: here’s a good place to launch your own arrow:
https://www.oprah.com/plugform.jsp?plugId=1985511
Thank you for trying.
I did some poking to see if I could find the address, but it appears they try and dissuade you from using it. However, she did have an interesting link:
https://www.oprah.com/plugform.jsp?plugId=1985511&referer=http://www.oprah.com/index
The page is called “What should Jenny do?” Looks like she wants to hear suggestions!
[...] Small-time blogger Shirley Wu has written a perfect letter to Oprah, and I really hope that Ms. Winfrey will see it. Here’s an excerpt: To me, it is clear that a significant number of people look up to you, and trust your advice and judgment. That is why it is such a huge mistake for you to endorse Jenny McCarthy with her own show on your network. [...]
Are you as misinformed as you claim Jennie McCarthy is? Do you do as much damage as you claim she does.
Go read her site: http://www.generationrescue.org/index.html
She states she is anti schedule and green vaxer and not an anti vaxxer. You’re purposely mislabeling her. Why would that be? There is an interesting study there based on CDC methodology. If you want to make points with Oprah go read the information at the McCarthy site and rebut it. Repeating loose information from sloppy science sites doesn’t do anyone any good.
“Repeating loose information from sloppy science sites doesn’t do anyone any good.”
Oh, the irony.
I posted my response here, it was a bit much to leave as a comment. For anyone willing to read about the other side. http://tinyurl.com/pxpgzk
>>Poilo (sic.) for instance was on the down fall before the vaccine was even introduced.>Besides, if you really believe vaccines work what do you have to worry about?<<
Vaccines are maximally effective when applied to an entire population–the so called “herd immunity” effect. We (humans) are all in this together.
[re-posting without angle brackets]
“Poilo (sic.) for instance was on the down fall before the vaccine was even introduced.”
The annual number of reported cases of paralytic disease declined from more than 20,000 in 1952 to an average of 8–9 cases annually during during 1980-1994. (That’s a 99.955% improvement!!!)
See this graph:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr4905a1.htm#fig1
This graph is more detailed than the one you posted (which creates an illusion of more ongoing cases by placing the y-axis zero visibly above the x-axis.)
“Besides, if you really believe vaccines work what do you have to worry about”
Vaccines are maximally effective when applied to an entire population–the so called “herd immunity” effect. We (humans) are all in this together.
Oprah Needs to Wake Up…
Oprah, for some reason I don’t understand, wields a great deal of influence with the public. People listen to, and do what she says. Unfortunately, she has always been on the side of woo, but now seems to have stepped over a line she should not have…
[...] http://shirleywho.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/an-open-letter-to-oprah/ [...]
Oprah just needs to say she is pro vaccination and the tenor of the whole effort changes. People should get the measles vaccination. The risk there is not worth it. The hib1 when born? that one just seems geared to make money for the vaccine industry. If the vaccine industry wants to be trusted they need to relieve themselves of their vaccinosis.
[...] I will carry on Shirley’s message here on Skepacabra by providing a link to the full letter as well as an excerpt from the piece: To me, it is clear that a significant number of people look [...]
[...] has been spreading through the net and through Twitter, and Im throwing my weight behind it too. This letter, written by Shirley Wu, is perfect, and I hope beyond hope that Ms. Winfrey will see it. Heres an excerpt: [...]
Children CAN AND DO have serious vaccine reactions that can be debilitating. The vaccine manufacturers admit this in print, why don’t y’all?
Children can be vaccine injured. The CDC admits a child in the US is more likely to experience a serious adverse event than to experience a VPD right now.
Vaccines still contain Aluminum. I will not inject my child with that. Flu shots given to children and pregnant women contained Thimerisol as late as LAST YEAR!
No systematic study has been made of Hg levels in the Pediatric population as a whole. Why not? We systematically ’study’ Lead levels.
Your article beats a straw man (the issue is NOT MMR), and does not address issues of medical system accountability, disclosure, INFORMED CONSENT. The first review of the CDC data DID show a link between Thimerisol and neurological disorders, however the scientist was beaten into issuing a ‘neither confirms nor disconfirms’ before they clamped down the data. Please cite the study establishing the safety of Thimerisol injections in pediatric populations.
It does not mention serious adverse reactions, including seizures, experienced by children to vaccines, it does not mention aluminum in vaccines, trace levels of Mercury remaining, the ill advised nature of compromising immunity so many times before 2, the glaring misguidedness of 8 vaccines when an infant is TWO MONTHS, medical system/government/pharma collusion, the similarity of Autism with Minnamata disease, the fact that IF your child is vaccine injured the max you will get for expenses related to permanent disability is 250G and if your child dies, you get nothing. You can’t sue the Pharma companies in open court, they have government protection. Your article doesn’t discuss vax contamination or Hot lots or viruses that have been transmitted by vaccines historically like SV40.
It is very neat to just believe that vaccines are manna from heaven that save lives much like a magical nectar. However the reality is much more messy. Too bad your article didn’t deal with any type of reality.
The whole idea that you can build a life long immunity with vaccines has been proven FALSE, btw, so we literally are overloading our children for no good reason. Immunity from vaccines is always necessarily temporary and all shots will need boosters or will be ineffective.
Jenny McCarthy may not be a scientist but clearly you are not either. Or you are one not particularly concerned with scientific fact. Even educated people can make mistakes when they put their unquestioning FAITH in a product of flawed man. I needent take you down a timeline of the 20th century to show you that our ‘best science’ has often been glaringly mistaken of late! Thalidomide, freewheeling use of Radiation in children, Vioxx, etc.
When was the last time you read a label at the grocery store? Well shouldn’t your injections be subect to at LEAST that level of scrutiny???
PS. No one, not one person died in the US of the 131 measles cases last year.
“Concerned Mama.” Right from the username, I could tell this was going to be a self-righteous screed full of woo-woo bullshit, and I was right. I could make several bingo cards out of it, in fact.
As for nobody having died in the U.S. last year, I suppose we shouldn’t take any action until someone does die? Or go deaf or have other neurological complications? Or, when that happens, will you just decide they need NAT-CHURRRRR-ALLLLL treatment?
People like you infuriate me. You’re living in an age of advanced science, chances are (going by the OP’s comments on class and status) you’ve got the health insurance to make use of it, yet you’d rather reject it and risk your children’s’ health because it makes you feel all spayshul and wise and Earth-motherly. Wake the hell up. You’re no better than the fundie idiots who’d rather see their children dead of AIDS than using condoms.
Please, can you post that letter on the Oprah.com website for others to see? The autism board is a good place to start, since there are several Jenny threads in there. I think there is also a vaccination section.
http://www.oprah.com/community/community/health/autism
Concerned Mama: studies have been done all over the world. Not one has found a link. Unvaccinated populations including the Amish have autism rates equal to the vaccinated.
Thimerosol: It was removed from most vaccines in 1999 yet continues to be blamed for everything. Yes, it was in the flu shot, but are parents of autistic kids claiming they all got the flu shot? First it was MMR (which never contained thimerosol), then it was too many vaccines, then it was bad ingredients. Now it’s aluminum??? Now who is the straw man?
“Vaccine injury” is nothing more than allergies. Some children are allergic to ingredients and have bad reactions – yes even death. But many children are equally allergic to peanuts. Shall we sue Kraft or Jif???
It’s only measles now, which is usually not deadly as you so proudly point out. Diptheria is. Pertussis is deadly to newborns. Polio leaves you crippled. But you don’t care, because you enjoy your anti vax bandwagon along with Jenny.
Kudos to Jenny McCarthy for putting herself out there, and to Oprah for supporting her.
Vaccines hold the documented risks of brain damage and death. Parents should inform themselves of these risks, and the risks of each disease, before submitting to a dangerous and unproven practice.
There have never been valid scientific studies examining:
- the long term health of vaccinated vs. vaccinated children
- the safety of the individual vaccine ingredients such as aluminum and formaldehyde
- susceptibility in children to vaccine adverse events
Vaccines are essentially mainstream quackery. People who buy into the herd immunity nonsense are people who have not closely examined the facts.
How many adults keep up with their boosters? It’s pretty obvious, when one examines the adult population, that herd immunity is just a theory. Our low disease rate is most likely due to better nutrition and sanitation.
Surely some of the vaccines keep certain diseases at bay…but at what price? We’re trading harmless childhood illnesses for chronic disease.
Edit:
- the long-term health of vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated children
As the mother of a son with Asperger’s, I thank you for speaking out. I appreciate Jenny McCarthy’s role increasing Autism awareness but like you said, she’s not a doctor — she’s just a mom, like me.
quote:
Concerned Mama: studies have been done all over the world. Not one has found a link. Unvaccinated populations including the Amish have autism rates equal to the vaccinated.
Marie: everything you have posted is demonstrably false. Amish do not have equal rates of Autism, and they also do NOT all eschew vaccinations. Just heresay! Please link to the study establishing the safety of Thimerisol in the pediatric population. India recently DID find a link between vaccines and their skyrocketing Autism rate.
The closest thing I have seen is a study that proves that Ethylmercury is eliminated sooner than Methylmercury. Relativistic and meaningless! So there is a more dangerous type of mercury than Theimerisol. Are we supposed to be grateful they didn’t use that one on our infants? EMercury took an average of 3 days to be eliminated. That is over 21 days of Mercury exposure in the crucial 21 day period.
Thimerisol was NOT ‘removed’ in 1999. This is absolutely demonstrably false. Check your facts. It was ordered to be removed in 2001. It was NEVER recalled, so could have theoretically stayed on the shelf until much later.
It was also in flu shots last year, and may be in flu shots again this year. Last year flu shots without it where available but you had to ask for/insist on them, and a lot of doctors were out of them. (But still giving flu shots WITH Thimerisol to pediatric patients!). There are also still traces of thimerisol in several pediatric vaccine brands. There is not regulation or definition of a ‘trace amount’.
Someone is jumping on the bandwagon, but it sure isn’t me! Let the facts speak for themselves, and the next time you post, get some! The issue is also one of ACCOUNTABILITY!!! How can you defend an industry that EVER said it was okay to inject a neonate with a known neurological toxin even after it was pulled from OTC products?
I think people who believe the hype like to accuse people who know the FACTS of blindly following McCarthy (in reality I could care less about her, I spend my time reading the medical lit, not pop star books!) because they feel guilty of blindly following their Ped and not even bothering to read the INGREDIENTS of something they will be injecting into their infant.
Thank you, ConcernedMama. Well said!
Correction: That is over 21 days of Mercury exposure in the crucial 21 day period.
Should read: That is over 21 days of Mercury exposure in the crucial 0-2 year neuro developmental period.
It doesn’t take a medical expert or genius to use common sense and see that the research is severely lacking.
Vaccines are not about health or public safety. They are about money.
Wrong. Talk to your grandparents, or even your parents if they are 65+.
Ask them about the misery of childhood disease. Ask them about not being able to go swimming in the summer, playing with friends, or when they visited friends in iron lungs. Ask them about the siblings who died. Ask me about my chickenpox scars (which my son will not have to deal with, thankfully).
Vaccinations have controlled all this and allowed people of the younger generations to assume that ‘childhood diseases’ are like getting a cold– no big deal. Wrong. They are a big deal. Ask parents whose infants have died of whooping cough, measles, diptheria. It happens now in the developed nations, whose populations are becoming complacent and enamoured of conspiracy theories.
Public health is still important, and we are on a course back to the 19th century. Good luck with that.
“Ask me about my chickenpox scars (which my son will not have to deal with, thankfully). ”
Seriously, you are comfortable with your son being injected with this vaccine every ten years for the rest of his life to avoid cp scars? What’s next? Vaccines to prevent scarred up knees from his bike?
If you’d like to take your chances with the diseases, that is fine, but vaccines don’t have a huge profit margin, and are not about “the money”. What some people seem to be forgetting when it comes to chickenpox is the shingles you get later on in life. The chickenpox virus remains dormant in the body until such a time it can reactivate and cause this very painful disease. The vaccines that prevent chickenpox are already preventing cases of shingles now. Other vaccine preventable diseases can cause encephalitis, which can lead to brain damage. Vaccines prevent deaths, they prevent life-long injuries, and that is priceless.
I was so miserable with chicken pox as a kid and remember weeping about how unfair it was that there wasn’t a shot that could have prevented it. This from a kid who hated shots more than anything.
Fast forward a quarter century to a painful bout of shingles that started on my belly while I was breastfeeding a baby who was too young to get the chicken pox vaccine. Scared me to death, since through her we had also potentially exposed a good friend who never had the pox as a kid and had not yet been vaccinated.
Youbetcha we’re vaccinated here. I couldn’t bear the guilt if I caused injury or death because of my unintentional biological warfare.
This reply is actually to Heather, but it would not give me a reply button
“Fast forward a quarter century to a painful bout of shingles that started on my belly while I was breastfeeding a baby who was too young to get the chicken pox vaccine. Scared me to death, since through her we had also potentially exposed a good friend who never had the pox as a kid and had not yet been vaccinated.
Youbetcha we’re vaccinated here. I couldn’t bear the guilt if I caused injury or death because of my unintentional biological warfare.”
Since you had natural immunity to CP and were breastfeeding your baby would have still been protected with your own immunity to CP.
Also, the most common reaction to the CP vaccine is chicken pox.
Also, cases of shingles in adults are rising due to lack of wild chicken pox exposure. Prior to the varicella vax, known and unknown contact with the wild CP strain acted as boosters to an adults immune system.
“New research published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.
Goldman’s research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.
Dr. Goldman’s findings have corroborated other independent researchers who estimate that if chickenpox were to be nearly eradicated by vaccination, the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Another recent peer-reviewed article authored by Dr. Goldman and published in Vaccine presents a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case. ”
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx
From the International Journal of Toxicology.
Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D. served for eight years as a Research Analyst with the Varicella Active Surveillance Project conducted by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS). The project was funded by the CDC.
@heartsong1976-I’m not too worried about the coming shingles epidemic because we’re probably all going to die from getting our regular boosters and such, at least here at my house.
Besides, I figure if we’re up to date on our vaccinations, our alien overlords will spare us when they invade. Or at the very least let us keep our holistic neurotoxin supplements.
Heather
“@heartsong1976-I’m not too worried about the coming shingles epidemic because we’re probably all going to die from getting our regular boosters and such, at least here at my house.
Besides, I figure if we’re up to date on our vaccinations, our alien overlords will spare us when they invade. Or at the very least let us keep our holistic neurotoxin supplements.”
Where did that come from? I cite a study funded by the CDC and you come back with such mature sarcasim?
stopjenny.com
“What some people seem to be forgetting when it comes to chickenpox is the shingles you get later on in life. The chickenpox virus remains dormant in the body until such a time it can reactivate and cause this very painful disease. The vaccines that prevent chickenpox are already preventing cases of shingles now.”
You are correct, some people may get shingles later in life, but the CDC has already said that people who get the vax are also develpoing shingles because it is a live vax. Add to that the increasing rates of shingles that the CDC study says is because of the lack of natural CP and we really do have a problem
heartsong-
Yeah, sometimes that happens. I attribute it to the vaccine injuries I received as a kid, as well as my recent tetanus booster.
Realizing that my previous snark does not lend me much credibility as I say this, I want to sincerely express to you that I am truly and deeply sorry for the loss of your daughter. A cruel, cruel tragedy and I grieve for you and the pain I know you and your family must be carrying.
I suspect that nobody here wants to see harm come to any child. It is not difficult to be passionate in our desire to protect the ones we love (and the ones we don’t, for that matter), but passion is best used to drive reasoning, not supplant it.
At this time, an overwhelming majority of the available evidence shows that vaccines prevent illness and save lives. Exceptions to this are terrifying and heartbreaking. But they are not common. And we are constantly working to make them even less common. As human beings, we have some interesting foibles around risk assessment (see Daniel Gardner’s The Science of Fear-it’s a thought-provoking read). Unfortunately, fear can lead us to make some dangerous and self-destructive decisions.
If disease prevention were “only” a personal decision with risk to the individual, there might be more room for discussion. In reality, we are collectively responsible for our public health. For those who doubt this and need a face to make this concept more real, it is worth learning about David and Toni McCaffery and their daughter Dana.
I wish the world were different. I wish we could destroy deadly diseases easily and with absolutely zero risk to anyone. Again, if it were just a numbers game for each individual to figure out on their own, with no impact on others, I wouldn’t care one iota for what Oprah helps Jenny McCarthy and her ilk spew. As it is, lower vaccination rates are a proven and deadly danger. Individual choices have a real effect on all of us. “Empowering” people to reject this fact based on feelings of fear and distrust is a danger to us all.
Jenny McCarthy is not anti-vaccine? Well that may be so from what she says, let’s take a look at the implications of what she says.
Suppose you believe what she says. Then you have to assume that vaccines are dangerous and produced by a conglomerate of people interested in keeping or making people ill for profit. In short, she says she is not against vaccines but that they are very, very dangerous and will cause autism. If you believe that, you can’t take them. However, she washes her hands in innocence of off it. That is very disturbing.
@KellieNVIC-You make a serious charge of conspiracy and criminal intent on the part of vaccine manufacturers and public health officials. Such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof-please cite your sources. Otherwise, I’m trying to figure out the financial benefit of injecting the population with ASD.
It must be past my bedtime. I have visions of Al Quaeda in league with Magneto to inject us with poison that will weaken us so that the mutant terrorists can take over. Luckily, our biological warfare campaign is gaining popularity and deadly diseases are starting to reclaim territory once reserved for ASD. Mwahahahaha. We will defeat the Terrorists/Big Companies one dead baby at a time! I knew if I sat here and read this stuff long enough it would all make sense.
Good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
Proof? The major organizations who set vaccine policy and make vaccine recommendations accept funding from vaccine makers.
Paul Offit – vaccine pusher who claims that a baby could safely take up to 10,000 vaccines at one time – holds a patent to a vaccine.
Come on. It doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist.
The Assoc. of American Physicians and Surgeons, who pride themselves in remaining conflict-of-interest-free and refuse to accept funding from pharmaceutical companies, are opposed to vaccine mandates because:
“Our children face the possibility of death or serious long-term adverse effects from mandated vaccines that are not necessary or that have very limited benefits,” said Jane M. Orient, MD, AAPS Executive Director.
http://www.aapsonline.org/press/nrvacres.htm
I’m glad you pointed out this Offit character. A guy who has devoted his life to study of immunology and preventing illness seems on the surface like he is an outstanding citizen of the world. But, he ~admits~ that he had surgery for a club foot as a child-PROOF that he is one of those mutant terrorists! We need more people like you and Jane Orient to keep America safe from terrorists and would-be alien overlords.
I have been amazed that people will put their trust in the glitz and glamour of a model and not the Americam Academy of Family Physicians and the American Academy of Pediatrics which base their endoresments on scientific data and not hoccus poccus and some one that is now being indited for falsifing data.
If Oprah believes in Jenny Mcarthy to give her a platform, does this mean Oprah’s charitable work in Africa will come to a halt, given the fact that medical services and dollars will be jeporidized because of McCarthy’s unqualified medical opinion? What’s it going to be Oprah?
What a woefully ignornat letter to Oprah.
Vaccines are not “safe”. Read the definition of safe – “without risk” and then have a look at VAERS and all of the children who have had adverse reactions.
Have a look at the dangerous ingredients in vaccines – right there on the package inserts. Then have a look at the statement on EVERY insert that states vaccines have not been studied for genetic mutation, cancer nor fertility impairment. Then go and research cell line contamination. After you finish that, go read some studies regarding waning vaccine immunity.
If that isn’t sufficient to make you question the almighty vaccine, go try to find research demonstrating it is safe for our children’s immune systems to be exposed to several diseases at one time, studies that demonstrate it is safe (short and long term) to inject our children with heavy metals and neurotoxins, studies that demonstrate it is alright to inject infants with these dangerous chemicals when their BBB( blood brain barrier) isn’t fully developed, studies that prove that humans aren’t being contaminated by the cell lines from animals. I can save you some time – there are none. If I can’t trust the drug companies and government to care about the long term health impact on my children, how can I trust them period? (Also have a look at how Merck falsified “peer reviewed” journals regarding the safety of Vioxx).
Ask yourself why the US government granted drug companies immunity from lawsuits from vaccine injuries? This has never been done before and certainly would not be necessary unless they were worried about mass number of lawsuits – because vaccines are NOT safe. Unless you can provide some other reasonable explanation as to why they were granted this immunity?
As far as the studies that were done to “disprove” the vaccine/autism link, many were flawed or biased. Dig a little deeper into issues rather than accept them at face value. When all is said and done, consider the Bailey Banks and Hannah Poling cases where vaccines WERE found to contribute/trigger/cause their autism. Stop regurgitating what you read in Time magazine regarding the Wakefield study and educate yourself – parents that choose not to vaccinate would not rely on ONE study (Wakefield) nor one person’s opinion (McCarthy).
A study was done that proved that parents who do not vaccinate are EDUCATED, middle class parents who take the time to ask questions rather than blindly follow the herd. Herd mentality is stronger than herd immunity.
Finally, have a look at the outbreaks that are occuring. More often than not it is among fully vaccinated children. Perhaps you can tell me – if vaccines are effective, why is herd immunity necessary?
PS – Jenny McCarthy at least has a vested interest in vaccine change. She has a child who was damaged by them. Amanda Peet and Jennifer Lopez are nothing more than mouth pieces who have no business trying to dazzle parents into vaccinating their children.
Nothing is “without risk.” There are simply gradations of risk. That comment alone makes the rest of your spiel easily disregardable.
Since I noticed that some people popped up calling vaccines bad and dangerous, y’all should take a quick look at the page linked via my name. It covers some of the things that you bring up, e.g., aluminum.
Also, keep in mind that Ms. McCarthy said, on Larry King, that she hopes that vaccine preventable diseases make a comeback.
While I don’t know the exact details of Jenny McCarthy’s position nor Oprah’s endorsement of her program, I do agree that in this country we have a problem with short-term memory. As a practicing doctor, I’m increasingly alarmed that the public has forgotten serious childhood illnesses that we no longer experience due to the success of vaccinations. We are starting to see these infections become more frequent, albeit fortunately still relatively uncommon.
Note from one of my posts – http://davisliumd.blogspot.com/2008/08/wishing-for-natural-therapies-can-kill.html
* “Before the measles vaccine in this country, there were 400 deaths of U.S. children each year caused by measles,” says Dr. William Schaffner, department of preventive medicine chairman at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine. “Measles carries serious complications, including pneumonia and encephalitis, which is a life-threatening inflammation of the brain tissue that can be caused by viral infections such as measles. Measles is a serious illness. To be cavalier and not vaccinate shocks someone like me, who has seen the devastating effects of this disease.”
At the same time we are struggling with this, a world away doctors are desperately trying to get the government to cover vaccines which are routinely offered in the US.
http://davisliumd.blogspot.com/2007/11/vaccine-against-infant-killer.html
Doctors in Macau, which is near Hong Kong, want the government to pay for the pneumococcal vaccine to protect against Streptococcus pneumoniae. The bacterium dubbed “infant killer” claims nearly 50 children per hour in Asia. The bacterium is already resistant to many antibiotics. Unfortunately the cost of the vaccine is out of reach for many in Asia.
Perhaps we as a nation have failed to remember the problems that faced us generations ago or that face other nations today. While ultimately the choice is a parental one, both the pros and cons must be objectively presented and not simply based on who has the power or influence to sway millions.
Davis Liu, M.D.
Author of Stay Healthy, Live Longer, Spend Wisely – Making Intelligent Choices in America’s Healthcare System
http://www.davisliumd.com
http://www.davisliumd.blogspot.com
Looks like the post I just received an e-mail about was deleted, but KellieNVIC:
>> Proof? The major organizations who set vaccine policy and make vaccine recommendations accept funding from vaccine makers.
A) that’s not “proof”, that’s call an ad hominem circumstantial logical fallicy. The belief that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. It’s a logical fallicy for a reason…it doesn’t tell you anything unless you’re a conspiracy theorist. B) Citation please. Which organizations are receiving funding from whom? This is the “big pharma” conspiracy theory. The one fact the theory overlooks is that pharmacutical companies would make orders of magnitude more money by providing after-the-fact cures than they do by producing vaccines. If your argument is there’s money to be made, it doesn’t hold water.
>> Paul Offit – vaccine pusher who claims that a baby could safely take up to 10,000 vaccines at one time – holds a patent to a vaccine.
Which means he’s a scientist who has actually done research on the topic as opposed to some anonymous poster on a forum. I would trust my child’s life with his opinion any day over yours. He knows what he’s talking about, you don’t. Offit has published over 130 papers on these topics over the last 30 years. He’s a specialist in infectious diseases. His vaccine has been proven to be safe in numerous trials, and was developed and tested over a 25 year period. You can make any stupid, fallacious argument against him and his intentions, but he’s saving lives…you’re screaming in the dark.
>> Come on. It doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist.
Yeah, it really does. You’ve proven that by provided nothing but conspiracy theories.
>> The Assoc. of American Physicians and Surgeons, who pride themselves in remaining conflict-of-interest-free and refuse to accept funding from pharmaceutical companies, are opposed to vaccine mandates because:
That’s an impressive-sounding name, alright! Let’s look at who the AAPS is, shall we?
http://www.aapsonline.org/membership_physicians_students.htm
They’re not a recognized organization, they’re a self-formed collective of doctors who share a similar viewpoint. They don’t share experience doing research, they don’t share specialties. They just think alike, and their thinking is they don’t want vaccines mandated. So, big surprise that you’d quote the one group that shares your opinion. Forget that every other REAL group disagrees.
>> “Our children face the possibility of death or serious long-term adverse effects from mandated vaccines that are not necessary or that have very limited benefits,” said Jane M. Orient, MD, AAPS Executive Director.
See, here’s the problem: in science, you need evidence. You can have any opinion you want, but without actual evidence to back it up, your opinion is nothing by words. If they want their opinion to be accepted as valid, they need to do actual experiments, produce actual evidence and have it reviewed by actual peers. Otherwise, this group’s opinion is as worthless as Jenny McCarthy’s.
BTW, this is called an “appeal to authority” fallicy. Authorities can be wrong, they’ve been proven to be so in the past. Data and evidence, however, never lies.
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Has anyone on here really followed VAERS for any length of time? I really don’t think so. Time magazine regurgitation indeed!
It is profoundly insulting to the children and parents that have been affected by severe and debilitating vaccine reactions to say that vaccines are ‘100% safe’ and vaccine reactions don’t exist. Check it out yourself. Recently girls have died from Gardasil. Or have broken out in genital warts all over their face and neck. It is in the FOA Gardasil report. Does your herd immunity mastrabatory fantasy demand Child Sacrifice? Looks like it does.
To the writer who compared vaccines to peanut butter: Imagine if every physician held every child in the USA down while forcibly putting a scoop of peanut butter with diptheria in it in their mouths.
And to the parents of the children that died? Well we need herd immunity you know, we just can tolerate children who have genetic deficienceies that make them allergic to peanut butter. Sorry. Better luck next time. Maybe you want to adopt? But it was really all their fault. After all peanut allergies are GENETIC.
All diseases have genetic and environmental components. If you take 10 coal miners and put them in a coal mine, they won’t ALL develop Black Lung. Some will be genetically RESISTANT to it. That is how it works: Some children are genetically RESISTANT to known neuro-poisons. Lucky them. To speak of genetic ’causes’ for disease is blaming the VICTIM.
Just like with cancer: Biologists estimate that 80% of cancer in environmentally caused by pollution. But what is the general public told? 80% of cancer is genetic and lifestyle. Check out http://www.scorecard.org to see exactly how much pollution this fallacy helps you ignore in your zip!
Just say no to blaming Autistic children. The skyrocketing of Autism was NOT caused by genetic changes in the population. The timeline wouldn’t even make sense that way. It is amazing y’all are willing to believe whatever they tell you on TV!
>> Has anyone on here really followed VAERS for any length of time? I really don’t think so. Time magazine regurgitation indeed!
Yes, I have. And? The pro-vaccination posts are consistent with the data in VAERS. Perhaps you just don’t know how to interpret data? I’ve never read Time magazine, so I guess your statement’s been completely invalidated. How can I regurgitate something I’ve never taken in? Perhaps the pharma companies are controlling my brain remotely?
>> It is profoundly insulting to the children and parents that have been affected by severe and debilitating vaccine reactions to say that vaccines are ‘100% safe’ and vaccine reactions don’t exist.
Who is saying that? In looking through these posts, no one’s said that. No medical procedure is 100% safe. Do you avoid all medical input from doctors? Let me summarize the inanity of your argument: “Well, doctor, you say this surgery could save my child’s life, but there’s a chance she might die…so we won’t be doing it.” “She’ll die without it.” “Yes, but you ADMIT she could die WITH it, right? I’m not taking that chance!” Vaccines, in comparison to the diseases they prevent are relatively safe. That, and the fact MOST vaccine reactions consist of redness and swelling in the area of application and potentially a low-grade fever (I refer you to VAERS, mentioned above), means that for the overwhelming majority of recipients, the risks of vaccine are orders of magnitude lower than the risk of not vaccinating the population and allowing these disease to spread again. If you’ve got a 100% safe and fail-proof method of ensuring my kid doesn’t get measles, mumps or rubella, I’m willing to listen. If you don’t…shut up.
>> Check it out yourself. Recently girls have died from Gardasil. Or have broken out in genital warts all over their face and neck. It is in the FOA Gardasil report. Does your herd immunity mastrabatory fantasy demand Child Sacrifice? Looks like it does.
A) False: there have been no deaths from Gardsil.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaers/gardasil.htm
B) False: there are no confirmed reports of genital warts. Below is the assessment report. Cite your claims.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/acip/downloads/mtg-slides-oct08/12-3-hpv.pdf
C) Does your desire to be right in the face of overwhelming evidence against you trump the safety of your children and all of those around you? You have ZERO evidence of your claims. You have mountains of evidence AGAINST your claims. You have the CDC, the FDA, the AMA, scores of scientists, doctors and researchers offering PROOF your claims are completely wrong. Yet, rather than potentially admit it, you want to eliminate these life-saving vaccines just to be “right”. Guess what? You never will be. You’re misinterpreting data, you’re wrong and children are dying from it. THAT is fact.
>> And to the parents of the children that died? Well we need herd immunity you know, we just can tolerate children who have genetic deficienceies that make them allergic to peanut butter. Sorry. Better luck next time. Maybe you want to adopt? But it was really all their fault. After all peanut allergies are GENETIC.
Well, let’s please see your research proving that. There’s lots of current research suggesting that’s not true. In fact, there’s mounting evidence that avoiding peanuts early on in an attempt to avoid an allergic response is a more likely culprit. For example, the incidence of peanut allergies in Israel is extremely low. Interestingly, almost every child born in Israel gets a peanut-based treat as a snack starting at a very early age (similar to how most parents give their kids Cheerios in the US).
That being said, no one’s suggesting some kind of insidious eugenics program (if you don’t know what eugenics means, you really shouldn’t be talking about any of this). The stance is that we have to weigh the risks: do we have one child in a million potentially suffer some serious adverse reaction to a vaccine or do we have one child in five die from a deadly disease? BTW, so we’re clear…you’re arguing in favor of the latter. Why are you trying to kill children?
>> All diseases have genetic and environmental components.
No, they all don’t. This statement alone shows your complete ignorance on the topic.
>> If you take 10 coal miners and put them in a coal mine, they won’t ALL develop Black Lung. Some will be genetically RESISTANT to it. That is how it works: Some children are genetically RESISTANT to known neuro-poisons. Lucky them. To speak of genetic ’causes’ for disease is blaming the VICTIM.
In the first case, the number of miners who work their whole lives (not just a casual drop in once) that don’t get black lung is statistically small. Even smaller are the number of children who have a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine. What’s your point? Those children MIGHT have a genetic predisposition to have a reaction, or they could have had a different environment that exacerbated the problem. If we could screen out miners so that only those who will never get sick in a mine go down into one, we’d be able to screen out every child who could potentially have a serious reaction to a vaccine. We don’t because we can’t. We’re working on it, and one day it may very well be possible to have vaccines that are 100% safe. In the meantime, we have to protect as many children as we can. Your belief in a puppy dogs and rainbows solution is pure fantasy. You can’t have it both ways: either a small number of children have reactions or a large number die. Why are you arguing in favor of killing millions of children?
>> Just like with cancer: Biologists estimate that 80% of cancer in environmentally caused by pollution. But what is the general public told? 80% of cancer is genetic and lifestyle.
You, madam, are the poster child for why we need to start teaching critical thinking skills in the US again RIGHT NOW!
>> Just say no to blaming Autistic children. The skyrocketing of Autism was NOT caused by genetic changes in the population. The timeline wouldn’t even make sense that way. It is amazing y’all are willing to believe whatever they tell you on TV!
Since I don’t watch TV, it would be difficult to believe what they say. But…apparently, you’re getting information from someone who is as clueless as you think everyone here is. No one has suggested genetic changes are causing an increase in autism. There has been found to be a genetic component, but that doesn’t help with the increase in diagnosis. That’s why research is still being done. However, the research has been done over and over again on an autism/vaccine link and nothing has ever been found. Perhaps it’s time YOU stopped watching TV and did some actual research. First, however, you need to develop some critical thinking skills.
Tony, thanks for your excellent and detailed rebuttals to the ideology-crazed hipmamas. Of course, nothing you say will get through their peabrains, but you’ve presented a lot of food for thought for what I’m sure are many lurkers who are on the fence.
One note: “Does your desire to be right in the face of overwhelming evidence against you trump the safety of your children and all of those around you?” Of course it does. Anyone who claims that “To speak of genetic ’causes’ for disease is blaming the VICTIM” obviously thinks she’s entitled to her own facts as well as her own feelings.
Anyone can report to VAERS, and not every VAERS case is as reported. These cases are investigated, and then the findings don’t delete it from the database. Once case that was reported was along with the fact that the child got 4 wasp stings that day. More on VAERS under the number 3 item at:
http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/boh/mip/misconceptions.html
Using VAERS as “evidence of harm” is like trusting your 3 year old kid to tell the truth about the lollip that dissappeared. Tell the kid to stick out their tongue to see what color it is, then check with the next kid on their tongue color to actually find out what happened to the lollipop. It may not have even been eaten.
The “autism” cases skyrotted as soon as other previously not included syndromes were added under the “autism umbrella”. “Mental retardardation” went to 0 cases as those cases were better diagnosed under other “umbrellas”.
The biggest risks are known about who should not be vaccinated, and those are mainly children who had a severe allergic reaction previously. Those children rely on herd immunity. Other children who have had organs replaced also take antirejection drugs, so they don’t get vaccinated, and they then rely on herd immunity as well.
@ConcernedMama
You may be interested in this bit from the VAERS FAQ (http://vaers.hhs.gov/vaers.htm#7):
You go on to say:
No one who support vaccines is making any claim that vaccines are 100% safe and that reactions don’t exist. They do, but serious reactions are rare. They are on the order of about 1 in 1,000,000. Serious injury from the diseases being prevented, however, has a risk of about 1 in 1,000, depending on the disease and injury in question.
Citation, please. The deaths reported on VAERS, after investigation, did not have common factors linking them to the vaccine. In a good number of them, the individuals had preexisting medical conditions which were more likely the cause of death. See the FDA or CDC pages on Gardasil for more information.
Many more would be permanently injured or die if vaccination stopped.
Allergies to vaccines are a contraindication for administration. In other words, if the child is allergic, then they should not receive the vaccine. However, the great majority of allergic reactions that occur due to lack of prior knowledge of an allergy can be stopped with an epipen, preventing any permanent injury from the reaction.
Who is blaming children with autism? Saying that it has a genetic cause is not blaming the child or blaming the parents. It is just a part of nature. Current science has shown that there is a genetic component to autism. Other avenues of research suggest vitamin D deficiency as a potential cause as well. The extensive research that has been done into vaccines, though, has yet to find any connection.
Click my name for more information on some of the basic arguments against vaccines.
Everyone who is interested in this topic should read the book Autism’s False Prophets by Dr. Paul A. Offit. Fascinating book that covers the complete vaccine/mercury debate in regard to Autism. Wonderful history along with extensive research are discussed.
Tony – Offit’s Rotateq vaccine was rushed onto the schedule and was found to cause dangerous bowel obstructions as a result. You cannot deny that he stands to gain A LOT from his pro-vax stance.
If you want some science, here it is:
HepB:
Prevalence of Hepatitis B Virus Infection in the United States: The National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys, 1976 Through 1994 concludes that:
Testing of participants in 2 national surveys demonstrates no significant decrease in hepatitis B virus infection, despite the availability of hepatitis B vaccine. (AM J Public Health. 1999;89:14-18)
***********************
Members of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons stated that “children under the age of 14 are three times more likely to suffer adverse effects — including death — following the hepatitis B vaccine than to catch the disease itself.”
Overall, VAERS has received a total of 17,497 reports of adverse reactions to the hepatitis B vaccine, reactions that occurred after people received the vaccine alone, rather than in combination with other vaccines, during the period between July 1, 1990 and October 21, 1998. Moreover, fully 5,983 of these reports chronicled such serious events as hospitalizations, while 146 of them told of deaths. VAERS, furthermore, is a passive system, not a mandatory one. This suggests that only a fraction of adverse events are actually reported, a fraction estimated by FDA officials to be as low as 1% to 10%.
(So, the odds of your child having an adverse reaction to Hep B vaccine is greater than a child contracting the disease if they are not in a high risk situation)
****************************
Recombinant hepatitis B vaccine and the risk of multiple sclerosis
A prospective study
Miguel A. Hernán, MD, DrPH, Susan S. Jick, DSc, Michael J. Olek, DO and Hershel Jick, MD
From the Department of Epidemiology (Dr. Hernán), Harvard School of Public Health, Boston; Boston Collaborative Drug Surveillance Program (Drs. Susan S. Jick and Hershel Jick), Boston University, Lexington, MA; and Department of Neurology (Dr. Olek), College of Medicine, University of California, Irvine.
Conclusions: These findings are consistent with the hypothesis that immunization with the recombinant hepatitis B vaccine is associated with an increased risk of MS, and challenge the idea that the relation between hepatitis B vaccination and risk of MS is well understood.
——————————————
HiB:
The Journal of Infectious Diseases published Prevention of Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) meningitis and emergence of serotype replacement with type a strains after introduction of Hib immunization in Brazil in January 2003 which had findings of:
The incidence of Hib meningitis decreased 69% during the 1-year period after initiation of Hib immunization (from 2.62 to 0.81 cases/100,000 person-years; P<.001). In contrast, the incidence for H. influenzae type a meningitis increased 8-fold.
Therefore, Hib immunization contributed to an increased risk for H. influenzae type a meningitis through selection of circulating H. influenzae type a clones.
********************************
7. “Reemergence of Invasive Haemophilus influenzae Type b Disease in a Well-Vaccinated Population in Remote Alaska”
“Widespread vaccination with PRP-OMP Hib conjugate vaccine did not eliminate carriage in this population of Alaska Natives, and ongoing carriage contributed to disease resurgence. ”
Karin Galil, et al, The Journal of Infectious Diseases, volume 179 (1999), pages 101–106 — 1999- 1- 1
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Polio:
The wild polio virus brought about the development of polio vaccines, which spawned mutations of the polio virus, resulting in new “vaccine-derived” wild polio viruses. Source: Virology 1993; 196:199-208; Lancet (October 28, 2000); Reuters Medical News (December 4, 2000)
*********************************
Outbreak of paralytic poliomyelitis in Oman; evidence for widespread transmission among fully vaccinated children Lancet vol 338: Sept 21, 1991; 715-720.
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Polio Outbreak from Oral Polio Vaccine in Amish Community (note: no paralysis or deaths):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301733.html
———————————————–
Rotavirus:
“Study: GSK vaccine may increase risk of convulsion, death”
“GlaxoSmithKline’s rotavirus vaccine, called Rotarix, is associated with an increased risk of convulsions and pneumonia-related deaths in children taking it, according to a review by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration… The study, which enrolled about 63,000 children, found a statistically significant increase in convulsions and deaths related to pneumonia compared with a placebo, the review says.”
Linker A, Triangle Business Journal — 2008- 2-15
***********************************
“Symptoms associated with rhesus-human reassortant rotavirus vaccine in infants”
” Irritability, decreased appetite and abdominal cramping on Days 3 to 5 postvaccination were also more common in the RRV-TV vaccine recipients than in the placebo recipients. One child in the RRV-TV group was hospitalized and 2 more infants seen in the clinic, vs. none in the placebo group. Conclusions. The first dose of RRV-TV vaccine is associated with a relatively high rate of febrile and other reactions, which may require a physician visit and, rarely, hospitalization. ”
Joensuu J MD, et al, Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal. 17(4):334-340 — 1998- 4- 1
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Pertussis:
Three research studies were made on the relationship that the pertussis vaccine had to death. Each one specifically examined DPT vaccinations and each found a relationship. In Waler’s case-control study, The relative risk of the child having SIDS within three days of being vaccinated was 7.3 percent. That is almost one out of every ten children given this vaccine. (That is a higher rate of death than actual death FROM the disease). Baraff et al, 1983, reported in Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal, 1983, Vol. 2, pp. 7-11; Torch, 1982, reported in Neurology, 1982, Vol. 32, p. A 169; Waler et al, reported in American Journal of Public Health, 1987, Vol. 77, pp. 945 – 951.
***********************************
New strains of pertussis emerging:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7353/1537
*************************************
Pertussis Diagnosis Often Missed in Canada, Study Finds
Sharon Worcester, Tallahassee Bureau [Paediatric News 34(1):20, 2000. © 2000 International Medical News Group.]
The high rate of immunisation against pertussis among children in North America may have lulled physicians in Canada into a false sense of security about the incidence of the disease. In a large retrospective study in Quebec City, only 12% to 14% of 974 children who met clinical criteria for pertussis were diagnosed with the illness, reported Dr. Shelley Deeks of the Laboratory Centre for Disease Control in Ottawa and her associates (Clin. Infect. Dis. 28[3]:840-46, 1999).
Since more than 95% of the children had been properly immunised, the missed diagnoses may have been a result of physicians’ misconceptions about the efficacy of the vaccine. Another theory proposed by the investigators is that physicians may have been inexperienced in diagnosing pertussis since there was a low incidence of the infection for many years preceding an outbreak during the 1992-1993 study period
**** I think that’s enough science for now!
Cheers!
Most published scientific studies do not support a causal relationship between hepatitis B vaccination and MS or other demyelinating diseases. Examples of this scientific evidence are as follows:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/multiplesclerosis_and_hep_b.htm
No increase in the risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) was found in a new study of children vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DPT). Findings appears to refute allegations that many of these crib deaths classified as SIDS are actually adverse reactions to the pertussis component of the DPT vaccine.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0815/is_n113_v13/ai_6968284/
The SIDS rate has dropped dramatically. However, there are still approximately 2,500 infants that die of SIDS every year in the United States, and SIDS is the third leading cause of infant mortality. In 2006, SIDS was responsible for 83 infant deaths in Illinois, compared with 177 infant deaths in 1996. SIDS occurs more often in males and in African-American and American Indian or Alaskan Native infants. More SIDS deaths occur in the colder months.
http://www.idph.state.il.us/sids/sids_factsheet.htm
Etc.
Dear Oprah,
You are a baby killer.
Sincerely,
Desiree Cooper
Wow, that’s really nice. Did you know that Oprah’s one and only child (concieved when she was raped by a family friend as a young teen) died at birth.
And that’s relevant how? Oprah should get a pass on promoting anti-scientific views that will kill millions of people because she lost a child herself?
Desiree,
Short, succinct, factual…but man…I think it will be ignored.
Ahh coincidences. Thy home in science is VAERS. No where do we see more coincidences than with vaccine reactions. In fact, most vaccine reactions will never be reported to VAERS because they are brushed off as coincidences before they can be reported. No one has died from Gardasil? Wrong. Women have died AND become paralyzed. Read the Freedom of Information Act report.
In a double blind study, all reactions/side effects must be reported. You can’t willy nilly decide what is and is not a coincidence based on your own personal biases. If it happens during the study period it counts. Why should vaccines be exempt to that?
My job as a parent is to protect my child from everyone who wants to hurt him, even if they wear a white coat. If y’all are comfortable trusting an establishment who will actually defended injecting dangerous heavy metals into infants repeatedly even if they are packaged with benefical ‘immunity’, that is great for y’all. Put YOUR infant on that table. The government has no business MANDATING treatments from a medical system that is so dramatically and often seriously mistaken.
I’d rather keep my child at home. You can keep your public education too, I’ll pay for private home education that will be BETTER and less risky in terms of disease transmission. Public pools were implicated in the Polio Outbreak too. Y’all still use them with abandon.
No one mentions this part, but if y’all didn’t stick your children in the human equivalent of factory farms all day for the no-cost childcare, we would not have this high risk of transmissable disease. Look at the animal kingdom: factory farming = disease. No different with institutionalized humans.
What do you say to the parent who loses their child to a vaccine reaction? Sorry? I’ll be okay with vaccines the day that doctors who give shots to a child that then dies from seizures, etc are put in jail for murder. A vaccine policy that demands that some children die so that others may have supposed ‘herd immunity’ will always fail.
I believe better, safer vaccines are possible, and if we all put up with the wack ones we have now, there will never be an economic incentive to change.
>> In fact, most vaccine reactions will never be reported to VAERS because they are brushed off as coincidences before they can be reported.
Really? Citation, please. Why is it when we ask you to back up your baseless claims you fail to provide anything to do so? Oh, that’s right…you don’t have anything but your own opinion.
>> No one has died from Gardasil? Wrong. Women have died AND become paralyzed. Read the Freedom of Information Act report.
Provide a link, and I will. All I see is the CDC confirming 38 million women receiving it and 32 women dying with no evidence it had anything to do with the vaccine. You don’t need to FOIA since they’ve already provided it.
>> In a double blind study, all reactions/side effects must be reported. You can’t willy nilly decide what is and is not a coincidence based on your own personal biases. If it happens during the study period it counts. Why should vaccines be exempt to that?
They’re not, they all go through double-blind studies for years before they’re put on the market. What? Do you think someone says “you know, I think I’ll create a vaccine. Here you go! Woohoo!”
>> My job as a parent is to protect my child from everyone who wants to hurt him, even if they wear a white coat.
What if that person is his mother?
>> If y’all are comfortable trusting an establishment who will actually defended injecting dangerous heavy metals into infants repeatedly even if they are packaged with benefical ‘immunity’, that is great for y’all.
Which “dangerous” heavy metals are you referring to? Mercury hasn’t been used in over a decade, and even then your kid had more in his body prior to the vaccine than was in the vaccine.
>> Put YOUR infant on that table. The government has no business MANDATING treatments from a medical system that is so dramatically and often seriously mistaken.
Your problem, my dear, is you’re clueless. You’ve lived in a time where medical science has increased your quality of life so far that you have no idea what it means to really be sick. But, since you’re not vaccinating your son…he will. Good for you!
>> I’d rather keep my child at home.
If we can’t mandate you vaccinate, we should mandate that he does so. He should NEVER leave the house both for his safety and the safety of others!
>> You can keep your public education too, I’ll pay for private home education that will be BETTER and less risky in terms of disease transmission. Public pools were implicated in the Polio Outbreak too. Y’all still use them with abandon.
Oh, so now it’s the fault of public education and pools. Yuh-huh. Anything else you want to blame? Airplane contrails? Aliens?
>> No one mentions this part, but if y’all didn’t stick your children in the human equivalent of factory farms all day for the no-cost childcare, we would not have this high risk of transmissable disease. Look at the animal kingdom: factory farming = disease. No different with institutionalized humans.
Animals in the wild = disease. Apparently you haven’t heard, animals catch diseases outside of farms as well. the problem is, we allow people like you to breed and raise children. Ignorance is, unfortunately, hereditary.
>> What do you say to the parent who loses their child to a vaccine reaction? Sorry?
If that fictional event ever happens…yes. What else can you say? What do you say to the parents of the REAL children who have died in industrialized nations because of unvaccinated children?
>> I’ll be okay with vaccines the day that doctors who give shots to a child that then dies from seizures, etc are put in jail for murder. A vaccine policy that demands that some children die so that others may have supposed ‘herd immunity’ will always fail.
You’re absolutely right…we should allow measles, mumps and rubella thrive again. Life was so much better back then!
>> I believe better, safer vaccines are possible, and if we all put up with the wack ones we have now, there will never be an economic incentive to change.
You’re right, safer vaccines are possible and research is continuing in that field every day. They will not be available for some time. Do you recommend, then, that all people stay indoors away from each other until then? Seriously, what’s the option? You’re so brilliant, I really want to hear your opinion…
>> What do you say to the parent who loses their child to a vaccine reaction? Sorry?
If that fictional event ever happens…yes. What else can you say? What do you say to the parents of the REAL children who have died in industrialized nations because of unvaccinated children?
Fictional Event? You do realize that the Federal Vaccine Compensation Court has paid out on death cases right?
My first born died 18 hours after recieving the newborn dose of the HepB vaccine. Cause of death: Extensive periportal inflamatory infiltrate and sepsis. noted by coroner: Infant’s liver presents as though she had Acute Hepititis B disease, infants skin is orange due to abnormally high bilirubin levels.
I do not have Hepititis B and she was declared a healthy newborn an hour prior to receiving the injection (including a CBC an hour prior to the injection) normal bilirubin levels and skin tone noted on her exam papers. 18 hours later she was declared dead, 50 hours old, 18 hours post injection, 14 hours after crossing into our home, thirty minutes after she went limp while nursing, 29 1/2 minutes after I called 911 and her dad started cpr, 20 minutes after they injected epinephrine directly into her heart, and a lifetime of heartbreak for me.
I filed against the government through the NVIC (did you know that the government does not allow parents to bring cases against the pharmaceutical companies who produce the vaccines unless you have gone through the federal government first?) maximum payout on a death case is $250,000, I was twice offered large payments from the government to drop the case, however taking the cash settlement also included a gag order and would keep any legal findings from ever being officially entered into evidence. I declined the pay offs, it was never about money, it was about setting a precedence, paving the way for others who were damaged or killed by the very thing that was supposed to help. When the case went to trial (federal) the US dept of HHS had 2 experts that brought to testify. After hearing from our experts, one of the govt’s own “experts” stated on record that it was entirely possible for the events that my expert presented, to have caused her death and that they had not looked at it from that angle. Their own expert flown in to “prove” it was not the vaccine, sat on the witness stand and said he might be wrong, and that the vaccine could have caused the same eosinophil explosion that they had said was due to bacteria (which was never found in her bloodwork or autopsy)
But, she is just a fictional child to you because despite all of that, 16 pages of legal talk saying that yes, it could have caused all of these issues, 1/2 of the govt’s witnesses testifying that yes, it could have been the vaccine, they ruled against us. The final reason: Everything presented shows it to be possible that this child died of a reaction triggered by the Hep B vaccine, however, it has never been proven in previous case law that it can happen so it must have been something else.
So how exactly does one prove anything in their eyes? If it can only be true if it has been previously ruled as true, then how do you ever get to be the first?
>> In a double blind study, all reactions/side effects must be reported. You can’t willy nilly decide what is and is not a coincidence based on your own personal biases. If it happens during the study period it counts. Why should vaccines be exempt to that?
They’re not, they all go through double-blind studies for years before they’re put on the market. What? Do you think someone says “you know, I think I’ll create a vaccine. Here you go! Woohoo!”
Vaccines are not held to the same safety studies as other pharmaceuticals. The safety studies done on the Hep B vaccines were done using ten year olds! But the cdc put it on the schedule for newborns.
“You can keep your public education too, I’ll pay for private home education that will be BETTER and less risky in terms of disease transmission.”
Lovely, another child h0me-sk00led by another ignorant, reality-denying parent. I feel sorry for his future employers and co-workers, who — if he takes after his “ConcernedMama” — will likely have to put up with reams of vehemently spewed ignorance. Not to mention retrain him a lot.
Provax quote: – - – (if you don’t know what eugenics means, you really shouldn’t be talking about any of this) – - -
Interesting! What do YOU think Eugenics has to do with any of this??? Nothing right??? Why should it. However, IMO, the fact that people in science actually entertained this evil nonsense in THIS century shows that having a PhD behind your name does not make you better than the rest of us, or immune to total nonsense.
If only there was an innoculation against total stupidity and evil ideas. Eugenics gave birth to the Holocaust, but it was American scientists who spread this cancer. Science historically has been very influenced by money, power, racism and the bogus, fallacious notions of the day.
Just another reason to LEARN from HISTORY!
We can all admit that it was WRONG to put eHg in the bodies of infants. Then HOW did our hyper educated protectors allow it to happen? Doesn’t anyone care about HOW these things happen? About accountability?
>> Interesting! What do YOU think Eugenics has to do with any of this??? Nothing right???
Uh, dumbass…you were the one suggesting that because we want children vaccinated that it was the same thing as killing anyone with a genetic disease. YOU brought it up.
>> Why should it. However, IMO, the fact that people in science actually entertained this evil nonsense in THIS century shows that having a PhD behind your name does not make you better than the rest of us, or immune to total nonsense.
Science DID NOT entertain this idea. Individuals did.
>> If only there was an innoculation against total stupidity and evil ideas.
You would be more bearable to read.
>> Eugenics gave birth to the Holocaust,
Actually, religion gave birth to the Holocaust. Try reading Mein Kampf sometime.
>> Just another reason to LEARN from HISTORY!
Please…practice what you preach.
>> We can all admit that it was WRONG to put eHg in the bodies of infants.
I’m not admitting that. The effects of the levels of mercury in vaccines has been tested and found to be safe since the 1930s. It was eliminated because ignorant dimwits heard once that mercury is a poison and fought to have it removed. Some people feel it’s just easier to capitulate to the ignorant than to try and educate them. As evidenced by this conversation, I don’t share in that belief. Do you plan on feeding your son any seafood? The levels of mercury are hundreds of times higher in seafood.
We actually do avoid seafood almost entirely. I love the ‘but its in the seafood’ argument. I just got this argument from a dentist who proceeded to remove two huge Hg fillings w/o my consent, not following proper protocols for exposure avoidance? What happened? They baby I was carrying at the time died.
How did it get in the fish, pray tell? Industrial and chemical dumping in the ocean! Remember all the hypodermic needles on the Jersey Shore?
You can act like we are all ignorant blaming only vaccines but I go out of my way to avoid all sources to lower my son’s overall body burden. To wit: we have no aluminum in our cookware or our food. We do not buy commercial baked goods. We don’t use aluminum foil, because I can literally taste it on food. We purposely bought our house AWAY from any coal plants, etc.
For real, my son eats Salmon that is Wild Caught in Alaska. We buy it by the case directly from the fisherwoman, who has it tested for mHg. We really don’t blame just vaccines, but we won’t believe any form of Hg or aluminum is safe for injection.
I consider people who feed their children contaminated Tuna (every other can tests over the EPA mHg limit) unwise and people who push it on mothers and babies (ie WIC) criminals.
Thimerisol was NEVER proven safe. Please cite a study establishing the safety of Thimerisol conclusively. You won’t be able to. That is why the OTC wound ointment was pulled in the 80s. (Some people still have this in their cabinets. I forget the name but it is red.) That is why they discontinued the thermometers.
So you are saying it was RIGHT to inject a 2 month old with Thimerisol knowingly? Every one of 22 patients in the original safety study on Thimerisol DIED. Read the MSDS on eHG. It isn’t cotton candy, bro! If you can’t even say that it is wrong to inject an infant with eHG, then I am grateful God never trusted you to be a mother!
Many ‘individual’ scientists fell sway to Eugenics. IMO the holocaust made possible by Computers and Eugenics, but yk, everyone is welcome to their own theory. Surely you are not blaming Judiasm, though, that would be horrible!
“Eugenics gave birth to the Holocaust, but it was American scientists who spread this cancer. Science historically has been very influenced by money, power, racism and the bogus, fallacious notions of the day.”
Because, of course, altie “medicine” is COMPLETELY free from all of those influences.
Oh, and you’ve Godwinned the thread. Congratulations.
Before you send this to Oprah, you may want to get your facts straight.
First, Jenny McCarthy is not “anti-vaccination.” She believes in vaccinations, just not the one size fits all approach.
Second, none of her arguments are based on Wakefield’s study, so you may want to research that again.
Third, do you not care about the children who are injured or who die from the “one size fits all” approach? My son is vaccine injured. No, he does not have autism. He is vaccine-injured by the “one size fits all” schedule that I felt forced to comply to due to mainstream people like you. Now, I realize I had a choice. I only wish I had known it then because my gut was screaming not to do it. My son has an allergy that could have been caught had there been a screening for certain vaccines instead of the “one size fits all approach.” Nice, though, that your letter against McCarthy would kill my son. I’m glad to see you have done your research ….or maybe you don’t care about my son because you only care about “the herd”?
Speaking of, are you up to date on all your shots? What about the other adults around you? In order for heard immunity to work, don’t you think adults are as important as children? Look up the vaccination rates on adults. I bet you will be surprised.
Take some time and educate yourself on this issue before attacking others. We are all only trying to look out for our children.
~Sarah
Tennessee
Hmmm – Tony has already calling names. I was wondering when the pro-v’s were going to start name calling. That tends to be their way – when in doubt, throw a tantrum and name call.
I just went through all of my posts, and I called her a dumbass because she asked why *I* was bringing up eugenics when it was she who did so.
I have not, however, called her names due to her stance on vaccines. I’ve called her ignorant, but just because the general populace might see that as an insult doesn’t mean it is. It’s a simple statement of fact.
So, do you have something useful to say?
I don’t really have time now to respond to comments in detail, but will say two things really quick:
1. Obviously, there are passionate folks on both sides (as happens when health is the issue). I think we’ve seen both pro- and anti- edging towards name calling so it doesn’t do any good to point it out and claim it is “their way” – both sides are guilty of the same. I suspect the intentions of most people are good – to protect human health – and almost everyone agrees that research should continue on developing better vaccines (not that everyone should get every vaccine, no questions asked, or that no one should ever get any vaccines). But in order to do this, we have to actually value scientific research, and then support medical practices based on the statistically significant findings of that research. Note that if no intermediate steps are acceptable, it will be very difficult to reach the level of safety that would satisfy _everyone_.
2. Here’s a good illustration of how misinformation about science is spread: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?n=1174
I value scientific research so long as: it is not funded by the maker of the product in question in any way and the participants are not paid to participate.
Very few studies meet these two conditions, which is why ‘true science’ is something of a Platonic ideal rather than a reality. What we call ’science’ is almost always biased by the prejudices of the day and vested interests. Which is how some of the more glaring mis-steps of modern medicine have happened.
I don’t like to buy into conspiracy theories. Still, in my own research and private practice, I’ve seen so many instances of biased science, biased or ignorant reporting of good science, or simply science abused intentionally and unintentionally.
There are very popular ideas out there that simply are not true, or they are only partially true and the reality is more complex then it is invariably presented.
Therefore, I can understand people being very cautious about vaccinations. I had my kids vaccinated because I didn’t have the time or resources to really look into the risk vs benefit factors, but I sure was uneasy about it. I regularly treat people for homosexual attractions, and yet there are many people mistakenly claiming that homosexuality is genetic, immutable, and unchangeable. My Master’s research was in autism, and at that time the big rage was facilitated communication, soon replaced by another fad — and no wonder, with devoted parents willing to cling to any hope or treatment.
Our understanding of autism, PDD, Asperger’s, Attention Deficits, Non-verbal learning disorders, and the effectiveness of various “alternative practices” — it’s all changing quite quickly.
And I don’t overly rely on statements by the medical associations, any more than I would rely on statements by the psychological associations (Note how former APA presidents Wright and Cummings have documented how the APA has again and again taken position statements and issued resolutions without adequate scientific data or demonstrable clinical experience.
So, a little humility, please. Let’s be open to different ideas, and if we want to argue, let’s not insult people for taking a stance different to our own. It’s difficult to know whom to rely on, and even experts disagree.
“I regularly treat people for homosexual attractions”
Hi there, Mr. Homophobic Bigot! You’re a fine one to talk about “biased science.” I imagine that your definition of “bias” includes any contradiction of the bible?
>> I love the ‘but its in the seafood’ argument.
Why? Because you don’t understand it? If mercury was as immediately and completely harmful as you seem to believe, the entire city of Boston should be filled with half-dead jibbering idiots. How do you explain that it is not? I know exactly how: you won’t. You still haven’t told me how you’re going to apologize to the parents of the children who have died because of antivaxxers.
>> I just got this argument from a dentist who proceeded to remove two huge Hg fillings w/o my consent, not following proper protocols for exposure avoidance? What happened? They baby I was carrying at the time died.
Ah, now it all makes sense. You have my condolences, but you need therapy. It’s obvious you’re overcompensating for this loss by over-protecting your current son.
>> How did it get in the fish, pray tell? Industrial and chemical dumping in the ocean! Remember all the hypodermic needles on the Jersey Shore?
And?
>> We buy it by the case directly from the fisherwoman, who has it tested for mHg.
Does she use a dowsing rod or a crystal?
>> We really don’t blame just vaccines, but we won’t believe any form of Hg or aluminum is safe for injection.
Well, you’re in luck! There’s none in vaccines!
>> Thimerisol was NEVER proven safe. Please cite a study establishing the safety of Thimerisol conclusively. You won’t be able to.
Wrongo! I’ll do you seven better…
http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
>> That is why the OTC wound ointment was pulled in the 80s. (Some people still have this in their cabinets. I forget the name but it is red.) That is why they discontinued the thermometers.
Yes, because they contained HIGH levels of mercury, not that they contained ANY mercury. Do you understand that there’s a difference?
>> So you are saying it was RIGHT to inject a 2 month old with Thimerisol knowingly? Every one of 22 patients in the original safety study on Thimerisol DIED. Read the MSDS on eHG. It isn’t cotton candy, bro! If you can’t even say that it is wrong to inject an infant with eHG, then I am grateful God never trusted you to be a mother!
What are you talking about? I’ll ask….knowing it’ll never be forthcoming…citation, please!
>> Many ‘individual’ scientists fell sway to Eugenics. IMO the holocaust made possible by Computers and Eugenics,
S’wah?? Computers? What holocaust are you talking about? At the time of the holocaust, the only computer was ENIAC, and that was on OUR side.
>> but yk, everyone is welcome to their own theory. Surely you are not blaming Judiasm, though, that would be horrible!
No, christianity. Read the book.
***>> We really don’t blame just vaccines, but we won’t believe any form of Hg or aluminum is safe for injection.
Well, you’re in luck! There’s none in vaccines!***
What are you talking about? There is certainly still Aluminum in most vaccines out there, and Thimerisol in trace or original amounts in others. I guess it WOULD be easy to defend the currently available vaccines if you didn’t realize that. (((Hugs)))
I would urge any parents to compare brands, because amounts differ (of aluminum and thimerisol), and there can be some damage control exercised if one still chooses to accept these neurotoxins for the purported benefits.
Obviously you have never even read the label on the shot, let alone any studies! It is listed on the package: Alumnium. Right there on the package.
Those numbers on the arms of Holocaust victims were fed into a Computer. There is debate about whether the programs were written by German subcontractors or not, but that is it. There were computers involved with the Holocaust, they made it possible. Read a little history.
Re: the seafood argument. I just drew up a shot of Tuna, care to come over for an lunch time injection? It only has a small amount of Mercury in it.
Digestion is different than injection, friend.
BRB with your Thimerisol link.
>> What are you talking about? There is certainly still Aluminum in most vaccines out there, and Thimerisol in trace or original amounts in others.
I apologize, I was only referring to Thimerisol. But, the link I provided to the FDA lists the amounts of Thimerisol in current vaccines. Everyone is currently list as Thimerisol free or having never contained the chemical.
>> I guess it WOULD be easy to defend the currently available vaccines if you didn’t realize that. (((Hugs)))
I can still defend the currently available vaccines as trace amounts injected once below what is considered safe for daily consumption of anything is not worth mentioning. But, I get it, your conspiracy theories depend on you believing that to be false.
>> I would urge any parents to compare brands, because amounts differ (of aluminum and thimerisol), and there can be some damage control exercised if one still chooses to accept these neurotoxins for the purported benefits.
Yes, some contain no Thimerisol and others contain none. Big difference. “purported benefits”? Really? So, measles is still prevalent? Polio? Is the media just hiding these facts so the pharmaceutical companies can get rich?
>> Obviously you have never even read the label on the shot, let alone any studies! It is listed on the package: Alumnium. Right there on the package.
Actually, I’ve read every label of every product given to my daughter. Aluminum in small amounts is not dangerous. Trace amounts aren’t worth talking about:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs22.html
>> Those numbers on the arms of Holocaust victims were fed into a Computer. There is debate about whether the programs were written by German subcontractors or not, but that is it. There were computers involved with the Holocaust, they made it possible. Read a little history.
Well, look at that…there’s a single uncorroborated book claiming IBM worked with the Nazis. Ok. I’ll give you that one, I’d never heard that. Computers didn’t, however, make it possible. What made it possible was a population of people desperate for any kind of leadership being dazzled by a charismatic person. They gave up their ability to think critically simply because what he told them made them feel good…they didn’t bother to ask themselves if it was right or true. Sound familiar?
>> It only has a small amount of Mercury in it.
Digestion is different than injection, friend.
Not significantly. And, I eat tuna all the time, at least twice a week since I was a small kid, yet am holding down a full time job where I’m responsible for systems that process $75 trillion/year in transactions, raising a wonderful daughter and attending college to get my degree in…wait for it…Bioengineering. That’s right, I have a vested interest in vaccines, so now your conspiracy is complete. BTW, carrying a 4.0 average. It’s not easy what with all the Mercury fog in my brain and all…
>> Here’s an interesting take on the recent Italy study. Seems there were some methodological problems.
And that would be? That he takes everything that is said by anyone and simply appends “but can you trust them, they make money off of this” to everything? If you think he makes ANY sense…well, it makes sense.
>> Here’s an overview of the history. You can check my facts but this is a totally accurate summary.
Really? And, how do you know so? Is it because the author writes an autism blog decrying vaccines? The only “citation” this person puts on the page is to an anti-Mercury group. Hmmm…I wonder how much they got paid by the anti-Mercury group to post that article. I think you’re being mislead.
>> Med Sci Monit. 2006 Jun;12(6):CR231-9. Epub 2006 May 29.
LOL! “Potential conflict of interest: David Geier has been a consultant in vaccine/biologic cases before the no-fault National Vaccine InjuryCompensation Program (NVICP) and in civil litigation. Dr. Mark Geier has been an expert witness and a consultant in vaccine/biologic cases before the no-faultNVICP and in civil litigation.”
Sorry, no. If it’s not ok for pro-vaccination folks to be have conflict of interests…even perceived ones, then pro-diseasers have to live under the same rules. Typical anti-vax nonsense. But…to address..Thimerisol isn’t used in vaccines anymore, and was never used in the majority of them, so get over it!
http://www.blogacause.com/blogacause/blog/actanonverba/2009/01/30/Doctor-Alberto-Tozzi-fails-to-disclose-Pharmaceutical-company-ties-regarding-Thimerosal-safety-study
Here’s an interesting take on the recent Italy study. Seems there were some methodological problems.
Here’s an overview of the history. You can check my facts but this is a totally accurate summary. Thimerisol predates the FDA:
Invented in the 1920’s by Eli Lilly, thimerosal is 49.6% ethlymercury by weight, a neurotoxin known to be more than a hundreds times more lethal to tissue than lead.
Eli Lilly’s safety testing of the product consists of a 1930 study of 22 patients dieing from mengiococcal meningitis in an Indiana hospital. Patients are injected with the solutions and followed until their death, which is within days. Because the patients die of meningitis, they are declared to show no adverse reaction to thimerosal and the product is declared safe for use. Thimerosal is subsequently introduced for use in vaccines and in over the counter remedies as a preservative to kill bacteria in the product.
When the FDA is created, Thimerosal is grandfathered in and is not subjected to any additional safety testing. The 1930 study remains the only safety testing done on the substance even after being in use for over 75 years.
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2005/08/beginning-at-beginning.html
Here’s a great beginning citation. The research is FAR from decided on this, even the mainstream research!
Med Sci Monit. 2006 Jun;12(6):CR231-9. Epub 2006 May 29.
Amazing! Y’all are even misrepresenting the published and accepted research!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11331700?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed
It’s hard to mis-represent the conclusion of this abstract you linked to:
“CONCLUSION: Our review revealed no evidence of harm caused by doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for local hypersensitivity reactions.”
I’ll relink to the FDA’s official guidance, again since it was a few hundred comments ago, before you joined the fray:
http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
Clearly, the safety issues related to thimerisol have been reviewed rigorously since the 1930’s.
“FDA has been actively addressing the issue of thimerosal as a preservative in vaccines. Under the FDA Modernization Act (FDAMA) of 1997, the FDA conducted a comprehensive review of the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines. Conducted in 1999, this review found no evidence of harm from the use of thimerosal as a vaccine preservative, other than local hypersensitivity reactions.”
With that, I am now tuning out. Thank you Shirley for a great post.
Yes it is really common for these vax studies to have a non-sensical conclusion: Ex: We found harm in every patient from Thimerisol, Conclusion: Vaccines are great!
Hint: read the actual study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11770890?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
[...] has taken action. After seeing Oprah give the commencement address at her college, she wrote an open letter to Oprah, basically saying, “Make the tough choice and cancel this idea!” It’s a [...]
[...] An open letter to Oprah @Oprah, don’t watch show but nice Duke speech. take own advice and make difficult decision to pull support from [...] [...]
I understand your concerns about Jenny McCarthy, but believe it or not, she is actually NOT anti-vaccine. She says this time and again during interviews. What she is advocating is for parents to pay more careful attention to the health of their baby and to the vaccine schedule. Right now, vaccines are given in a “one-size-fits-all” method–the problem is, that doesn’t work for everyone. Jenny doesn’t believe that vaccines cause autism, but she does believe that they can be the toxic overload that pushes kids over the edge onto the autism spectrum.
Granted, Jenny’s not an academic, and she sometime says things she shouldn’t. But all she’s really trying to do is draw attention to the issue and help kids with autism.
First of all, the letter is proving to be quite interesting – mainly because the rather elaborate (and occasionally off-the-topic) discussion it has spawned. That does not diminish the fact that the letter is well-written and demonstrative … just creates a bad feeling that a letter of this sort has to be written at all.
I am going to make an assumption here – forgive me if I am mistaken – that a significant number of posters on this thread are American or at least Western … regions with high levels of sanitation, hygiene and general good health. I question how this has come about – most western societies are much younger compared to Asian/African civilizations. The answer, probably, is scientific systems of medication, vaccination and epidemic extermination. A group immunity is born which serves the society well for many generations, which includes most posters here.
I have grown up in some of the poorer regions of India, where, trust me, we do not have the luxury to debate whether vaccines can or cannot cause autism. There are no health insurances or hospitals we can go to for free solutions to medical problems. There is only a meager hand-to-mouth existence, where the death of two or three children in the family hardly called for a comment, as little as one generation ago. Things, however, are changing now…
There are UN and Red Cross camps which provide free vaccination. They are not perfect , but they are good enough – beggars can’t be choosers. Take a look at this : http://www.worldbank.org.in/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/SOUTHASIAEXT/INDIAEXTN/0,,contentMDK:21917558~pagePK:141137~piPK:141127~theSitePK:295584,00.html
The improvement is there for all to see. What has all this to do with Oprah, you ask? Well, Red Cross and the UN are not the only NGOs at work here, charities run by a certain someone also exist here.
Guess the rest of the story.
Oh dear. The crazies have come out of the woodwork.
Don’t vaccine? Hey. Fine. Great.
Ignore three hundred years of medical science and a few dozen diseases we don’t talk about anymore. Ignore that a “real mother” was a mother who had lost a child for much of documented history. Ignore that even today babies don’t die of HiB thanks to the vaccine.
Just kindly do it somewhere else.
Find an island where you and your fellow science illiterates can spend time listening to little babies cough their lungs out from whooping cough or lose their fertility from mumps or their hearing to measles.
Get off the internet and stop trying to spread disease.
Oh and nice work to Ms. Wu. I prefer her wu to the woo of the anti-vax nutters.
There’s no such thing as bad press.
Well-written, and I applaud your effort. Many trends are harmless, but the ones who ignore scientific support and dangerous ramifications need to be rigorously and consistently questioned.
Well done.
Thanks to you from all of us.
Beggars can’t be Choosers? That is your justification for injecting impoverished children with vaccines that still contain original amounts of Thimerisol? That Autism is no big deal over there? Without American social services/therapies, the life of an Autistic child is an abject horror! Especially in environments where people don’t understand the disease! India has been experiencing skyrocketing Autism rates.
I guess ‘Beggars can’t be Choosers’ works as a moral ‘get out of jail free card’ with this crowd however, it won’t fly at the Holy Gates. I am sure those who advocate vaccinating INFANTS with Thimerisol or the synergistic Aluminum will be getting turned away.
It has always been the impoverished that are at the greatest danger from human experimentation at the hands of science. Nice. Looks like that hasn’t changed. Using parent’s justifiable fear of disease to expose their INFANTS to known neurotoxins in any amount is abominable, inhuman, abhorent, etc.
P.S. They ship those mercury vaccines overseas so they can still make a buck off vaccines American parents won’t accept anymore. Hardly an example of benevolence. More like poverty profiteering.
OK, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that vaccines are harmful, to some degree. What are the real odds of getting these diseases and dying from them vs. getting harmed by the vaccine itself? What are the societal costs of treating the diseases vs. treating the harm? What about the personal cost? Can we make this comparison? Apparently we do all the time. Ask the FDA. They approve all kinds of drugs in the hopes of alleviating certain conditions or the severity of a condition that can’t be at all predicted, except statistically.
Most drugs don’t even get to the testing stage, and many don’t pass the approval process either. The FDA and Health Canada require that drugs be tested for years for safety and efficacy, and most stay on the market afterwards. Other products, like weight loss products are sold as “food products” and don’t have to be tested for safety or efficacy before they are sold. There are many “natural health products” pulled for harming people after being found to be laced with real drugs or harmful amounts heavy metals since they aren’t tested before being sold. Thimerisol actually never contained methyl mercury, but vaccines with Thimerisol that had ethyl mercury actually had far less than the recommended daily intake. Ethyl mercury is also cleared from the body rapidly (unlike the methyl mercury that causes mercury poisoning). This is moot now, since only the flu vaccine contains it anymore, and none of the vaccines in childrens’ schedules contain it.
MMR never contained it. The live polio vaccine is also used overseas in third world countries, and that also doesn’t contain it. So much for making “a buck off of mercury vaccines”.
Comparing the risks can be done at:
http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/Compare%20the%20Risks.pdf
The live Polio vax CANNOT be used in this country anymore because it CAUSES Paralytic Polio in a certain number of cases. This just happened in Nigeria last year. 44 cases. Followed by a purportedly ‘unrelated’ outbreak. Sure.
So yes, another example of shipping bad vaxes overseas to cause levels of harm in children over there that we will not accept here. In this country, we only give our children IPV. Why? Because it doesn’t cause Paralytic Polio.
Recommended Daily Intake of EthylMercury? You have got to be kidding! It is not a food! There is no RDI for injected Mercury of any kind. It cannot be benefical in any way.
Ethyl mercucy is partially cleared from the body faster than Methyl mercury: Relativistic and meaningless. 3 days is too long to be exposed to mercury of any kind. We also do NOT know that it is all cleared completely and doesn’t cause damage while it is in there.
Vaccines besides the flu vaccine still do contain Thimerisol, I’d look into it if I were you. It has been MOSTLY removed from Pediatric vaxes. Not from Adult vaxes. Not from Flu shots that are still sometimes given to children and pregnant women (and therefore neonates).
IMO it is not a moot point when it is still being given to children overseas. We can’t say: Well America is safe and the developing world are a bunch of Beggars that can’t be Choosers, so let them have all the Thimerisol (and incidentally also Aluminum) that they will accept. Do you see what is wrong with that line of thinking?
Some animal vaxes contain NEITHER Aluminum nor Mercury, so hows that? Must be possible to create vaxes without these neurotoxins, huh?
The live polio vaccine is used where it is still pandemic because it is more effective. It is better to have a more effective vaccine that prevents more paralytic polio than the non-live vaccine. Yes, there is the potential the vaccine can cause polio, but that is rarer than the disease causing polio. As well, the live vaccine is more easily transported and stored and is more cost effective. In places where the wild virus cause paralytic polio, the risk benefit ratio of using the live vaccine is weighed in favor of using the live vaccine. Once polio is eradicated from those areas the dead vaccine can be used until polio is no more. If people here stop getting vaccinated and polio returns, then the live vaccine will have to be used here too, because it is more effective.
The amount of “mercury” and aluminum in vaccines (not all human vaccines either) is less than you’d get via your food every day and drinking water. Call them neurotoxins if you like, but aluminum is the most abundant mineral on the planet and are dosed with far more of it every day than you’d ever get from any vaccine.
If 3 days is too long of an exposure for you, then I guess you’ll need a ticket off of this planet, because you are exposed to it EVERY day, and everyone-whether vaccinated or not-has aluminum and mercury in their bloodstreams. Your rant shows you are not aware of this, so I do hope you become better educated on daily exposures and the sources. It is unavoidable, unless you stop eating, drinking, and breathing. But, then you’ll be dead, so I daily exposure needs to be kept to below recommended daily exposure levels. So, the miniscule amounts in vaccines is really a non-issue, but for some reason antivaxxers rant on and on about these “toxins” that actually already exist in your body, and even in newborns, and even if the newborn is only breast fed.
****The amount of “mercury” and aluminum in vaccines (not all human vaccines either) is less than you’d get via your food every day and drinking water.****
This is completely and totally false!
However, even if we were exposed to mercury and aluminum every day in our drinking water & food (again totally untrue unless you subsist on Tuna & Shark, washed down with Coca Cola, with a desert of baked goods with Double Acting baking powder (even though the Aluminum free is available in all stores now) (i.e. your diet is a completely pollution ignorant one) we would be exposed via DIGESTION. Digestion is this wonderful process that accounts for some level of toxins being present in our food and is to some extent capable of removing these toxins through our bowel.
That is QUITE different than injecting heavy metals directly into our bloodstream/muscles. Digestion no equal injection. That is why I am slightly less careful with say Tylenol than with Rhogham. I guarantee you I am better educated than you on the sources of pollution in our environment. I suggest YOU get a little better educated on our body’s filtering mechanisms, and why eating is different than getting a shot.
Ummm, duh.
The directly injected amounts are not miniscule, friend, especially compared to the amounts found in some foods.
***The live polio vaccine is used where it is still pandemic because it is more effective. It is better to have a more effective vaccine that prevents more paralytic polio than the non-live vaccine. Yes, there is the potential the vaccine can cause polio, but that is rarer than the disease causing polio. As well, the live vaccine is more easily transported and stored and is more cost effective. In places where the wild virus cause paralytic polio, the risk benefit ratio of using the live vaccine is weighed in favor of using the live vaccine.***
If you don’t mind, I am going to write this on a condolence card that we can send to all the mothers who lose their children to paralytic polio after receiving your ‘more cost effective’ oral polio vaccine. Can you imagine losing your child while doing something you thought would protect them? I’m sure they agree with you, the economics WERE more important than their child’s life.
And we could send a copy to all the mothers whose children catch paralytic polio from that child. 98% of Wild Poliomyletis strains are NON-Paralytic. 100% of the live polio in the vaccine is paralytic.
Vaccine caused Polio is NOT that rare, like I said, it happened last year, it definitely makes the news every so often. Dr. Salk has been quoted as saying that every case of polio in the US since the late 60s was caused by the Oral vaccine. It is hardly unheard of. I don’t find sacrificing a child who would NOT have necessarily caught the disease in question to be an acceptable way to prevent disease. Maybe you could make another website called ‘Vaccine Body Count’.
[...] was pleased to see this open letter to Oprah from one concerned mom. Here’s an excerpt: To me, it is clear that a significant number of people [...]
[...] more than the right-wing ones. This time it wasn’t a post on nuclear power, but vaccination, An open letter to Oprah. Like the previous one on nuclear power, the first response is from a nutter: ok ok ok to hell with [...]
[...] paper is already out, and one is in preparation. Second, she wrote a blog entry entitled “Open Letter to Oprah” where she expressed her disappointment that Oprah is supporting the non-scientific and [...]
I posted this in response to Tony’s oh so kind comment about fictional dead children
My first born died 18 hours after recieving the newborn dose of the HepB vaccine. Cause of death: Extensive periportal inflamatory infiltrate and sepsis. noted by coroner: Infant’s liver presents as though she had Acute Hepititis B disease, infants skin is orange due to abnormally high bilirubin levels.
I do not have Hepititis B and she was declared a healthy newborn an hour prior to receiving the injection (including a CBC an hour prior to the injection) normal bilirubin levels and skin tone noted on her exam papers. 18 hours later she was declared dead, 50 hours old, 18 hours post injection, 14 hours after crossing into our home, thirty minutes after she went limp while nursing, 29 1/2 minutes after I called 911 and her dad started cpr, 20 minutes after they injected epinephrine directly into her heart, and a lifetime of heartbreak for me.
I filed against the government through the NVIC (did you know that the government does not allow parents to bring cases against the pharmaceutical companies who produce the vaccines unless you have gone through the federal government first?) maximum payout on a death case is $250,000, I was twice offered large payments from the government to drop the case, however taking the cash settlement also included a gag order and would keep any legal findings from ever being officially entered into evidence. I declined the pay offs, it was never about money, it was about setting a precedence, paving the way for others who were damaged or killed by the very thing that was supposed to help. When the case went to trial (federal) the US dept of HHS had 2 experts that brought to testify. After hearing from our experts, one of the govt’s own “experts” stated on record that it was entirely possible for the events that my expert presented, to have caused her death and that they had not looked at it from that angle. Their own expert flown in to “prove” it was not the vaccine, sat on the witness stand and said he might be wrong, and that the vaccine could have caused the same eosinophil explosion that they had said was due to bacteria (which was never found in her bloodwork or autopsy)
But, she is just a fictional child to you because despite all of that, 16 pages of legal talk saying that yes, it could have caused all of these issues, 1/2 of the govt’s witnesses testifying that yes, it could have been the vaccine, they ruled against us. The final reason: Everything presented shows it to be possible that this child died of a reaction triggered by the Hep B vaccine, however, it has never been proven in previous case law that it can happen so it must have been something else.
So how exactly does one prove anything in their eyes? If it can only be true if it has been previously ruled as true, then how do you ever get to be the first?
Heartsong, your story is gut wrenching of course, but why should we believe you? You CANNOT get hepatitis B from the vaccine, so your inference is impossible.
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/hepb/qandavax.asp
The suggested age is at 12 months, not newborn.
I find your story fishy. This is the problem with all anecdotes, they are word of mouth and lack proof, and yours especially makes no sense.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2009/09_0-6yrs_schedule_pr.pdf
Lets start with this
CDC vaccine schedule -birth dose to all newborns prior to leaving hospital
I did not say she actually got Hep B, obviously, Hep B does not kill within hours. I simply restated what the coroner said.
To “prove” who I am. search the VAERS database. My daughter was born 01/15/2002 she died 01/18/2002 I live in Ohio.
That should be enough info to at least let you know I am talking about my daughter.
“The suggested age is at 12 months, not newborn.
yours especially makes no sense.”
If you are going to tell someone they make no sense, shouldn’t you first make sure that your own points of information are correct? How hard would it have been for you to look at the cdc vaccine schedule?
From the website you linked
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/hepb/qandavax.asp
Who should get this vaccine?
Hepatitis B vaccine, usually a three-dose series, is recommended for all children 0-18 years of age. It is recommended for infants beginning at birth in the hospital.
trying to figure out how to link to the case but here is what I could copy http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/search_vaccine?op0=contains&filter0=sierra&op1=contains&filter1=&op2=%3D&filter2=&op3=OR&filter3%5B%5D=Special+Master+Abell&op4=%3D&filter4=**ALL**&op5=%3D&filter5=**ALL**&op6=%3D&filter6=**ALL**&op7=AND
Date Filed Deciding Official Case Name Keywords: Click here to download opinion
01/10/2007 Special Master Abell JULIANNE L. COLON, parent of SIERRA KENDALL COLON, a minor v. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES (04-44V) Hepatitis B, Neonate, Sepsis, Serum Sicknesss
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/ABELL.COLON011007.pdf
Here you go, rip me to shreads.
Plausible but not proven, theory, more credible witness needed (never mind the fact that the gov’t witness agreed with my immunologist)
Could it have been something else? Sure. Will the majority of infants be okay? Sure Should we be injecting 2 day old babies against a disease that is passed mostly by sex and IV drug use? I don’t think so. If a child is born to a hep B + mother then vaccinate and give the conjugate too. If someone in the child’s home is Hep B postive then vaccinate them. But most babies are not at risk of getting Hep B
Heartsong, I read your story with sympathy, but you must face the facts.
Sierra did not die from a “serum sickness” type reaction from the HBvaccine. It is quite clear that the court gave plaintiff’s witnesses ample opportunity to show causation. Dr Levin’s main “evidence” was the presence of “eosinophils” in the liver (itself not proof of anything other than possible allergy among other things). He was not qualified to properly interpret these histological findings, and there is very persuasive evidence from proper experts such as Dr Anderson that these “eosinophils” were merely immature white blood cells with eosinophilic granules. She says “Well, it’s a very common problem I have with my residents. They call them eosinophils, but they’re really metamyelocytes, which means they are immature polys”[polymorphonucleocytes].
Everything in this case points to death from sepsis. The cultures were negative because you had received cephalosporins to treat UTI and Group B streptococcal infection, rendering the specimens “sterile”
I can see no problem with the court’s summation.
“In order to prevail under the causation in fact standard provided in Althen, a petitioner must demonstrate by preponderant evidence a reliable medical theory that links, via “a logical sequence of cause and effect,” the vaccination and the injury alleged, thereby “showing that the vaccination was the reason for the injury.” Hence, though this Petitioner need not identify or prove that a specific biological mechanism occurred, Knudsen, 35 F.3d at 549, she cannot prevail simply by bootstrapping a plausible medical theory to her petition
based solely on a proximate temporal relationship and lack of alternative causation.”
Conclusive proof is not required, merely a preponderance of evidence, and plaintiff was unable to show this.
Just an FYI.. as stated at http://www.stopjenny.com, nobody affiliated with the website works for vaccine makers, nor do they work in the medical industry, nor do they work for drug companies. None of us are motivated by profits, and none of us benefit from the making or distribution of vaccines (although they benefit from the protection they get when vaccinated). Not one cent has been made by posting information on the website (it only costs money to maintain), and all the time put towards it has been voluntary. No vaccine is ever “our vaccine”.
*************************************************
From the article linked below: In England and Wales there are over 2 million doses of oral polio vaccine given each year. An average of one case of poliomyelitis in someone who receives the vaccine, and one case who has caught it from a recipient of the vaccine, occur each year.
http://www.medinfo.co.uk/immunisations/polio.html
***********************************************
It is not paralytic polio either. My son received this vaccine in the 1990s with no problem. Now that polio is no longer in the US and Canada, the non-live vaccine can be used. You can send your letters to the 1 out of 2 million, but they did accept that small risk and still saved their children from paralytic polio. They would also agree that eradicating polio is a good thing.
So, rather than having a vaccine that MIGHT cause 1 per 2 million cases of polio to prevent millions of cases of polio, you’d take the millions of cases of polio? Sorry, but the people who have to live with the threat of polio disagree. The actual stats (rather than propoganda) are readily available.
If parents stop vaccinating their children and polio returns to where the non-live vaccine is used, then the live vaccine would be have to be used again.
To preven this, I think most parents would agree that getting the non-live vaccine is better than letting polio return and having to use the live vaccine. Still, one out of 2 million is better than getting wild polio for sure, and most parents understand that. If you want to leave your child unvaccinated and open to getting wild polio that carries with it the risk of paralytic polio, then that is your choice.
Today’s live virus vaccine is safer than the one used in the 60’s.
Heartsong: I am SO sorry for your loss, and I am even more sorry for the injustice you experienced. No medicine outside of a vaccine could ever cause the death of an infant with a healthy Apgars and CBCs with impunity.
Your ‘trial’ was obviously meant to teach us all a lesson to ‘take the money and STFU (ie obey the gag order).
Ask yourselves: Why gag orders if there is nothing to gag???
If you honestly want to contend with the issue of vaccines, you have to contend with the adverse events associated with them. It is not science to pretend these don’t exist, dismiss every parental horror story out there, justify adverse events overseas with patronizing platitudes, and claim all adverse events are coincidences. It is DOGMA.
***Today’s live virus vaccine is safer than the one used in the 60’s.***
How so exactly. Your post makes it seem like every person who gets wild polio becomes paralyzed. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As I stated before, 98% of Wild Polio strains are non-paralytic and can even be ASYMTOMATIC. However, these strains still confer immunity to paralytic polio.
When children catch Polio from the vaccine it most CERTAINLY is paralytic polio. Or it would never be reported. Otherwise, it might even be asymtomatic and they would never know they had caught it.
Link to an article covering 69 paralyzed children in Nigeria from the Associated Press: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/opv_23.html
Yes, I am SO sure those parents are deeply consoled at the loss of their CHILDREN by their ‘noble sacrifice’ in the war on Polio.
IMO there is WAY too much complacency here. So we lose some children, so what? They are collateral damage. Hippocrates did not say ‘do some harm if you project more benefit than harm using some software’ he said ‘First do NO harm’.
I must protest your logic, ConcernedMama. By ignoring vaccination, the antivac movement claims that a tiny minority of particularly susceptible children are saved from impairment. Are the communities effected by outbreaks and children who are killed by preventable diseases merely collateral damage to the antivac movement? The other side must share a burden of responsibility as well.
By the way, I’m an uncle of an autistic nephew whose mother is one of the closest people in the world to me and I am greatly concerned by her inspiration of Jenny McCarthy to not complete his vaccinations.
I see that my comment “Beggars can’t be Choosers ” has attracted a lot of ire. Understandable. It is difficult to gauge the life of people 8000 miles away earning 800$ a year when one is sitting in front of a LCD screen in a cool house. Still, it seems unfair to fight with emotions when your weapons facts, so, facts it is…
Browse this site for a history of Polio Eradication in India : http://www.polioeradication.org/history.asp
The US of A does not export its vaccines to India, we make our own… http://www.chemicalregister.com/Vaccines/Suppliers/pid14272.htm
Autism is not a developing trend in India – a lack of awareness makes it look so. Most parents here do not know that their children are autistic. Their number is concentrated in the rurals, where vaccination rates are low.
India has suffered from small, localized epidemics often. I, on course of duty, have visited several camps with outbreaks of Kala Azar (google it), Jaundice (or Hepatitis) and Cholera. In every case, the village was not on our official Vaccination List. I mean EVERY case. I have not, so far, come across a single blue camp in an immunized village. I wish I could site documents, but every report I have were made by me and would not carry much weight in this argument. I invite you to Delhi where I can show documented histories and on-site expositions.
To <> I get what you are trying to say. I believe that you have no personal gain in proving what you are trying to, and that you are trying to raise awareness about a serious problem. But, please understand, I do not find an alternative solution in your posts. I am not looking for philosophies or data. Every time I come back from a “hit” village, I look for results. I am sorry to say that a cheap, easy to obtain and surface-successful vaccine is the only place where I have got them.
I just realized : aren’t we moving a bit too far from the topic … which was, incidentally, “an open letter to Oprah” ? I guess, this really has hit a nerve with some people. I wonder about the chances of Oprah ever reading these posts.
Just to be clear, The last para was addressed to “ConcernedMama”
To Shirley, I come from a similar background/family as you do. When I was your age, I had the exactly the same opinion as you have in this letter, until I became a parent. I just wish one day when you have your first baby and before having the HepB shot in hospital, you have already done your research on this vaccine and the disease it prevents. And please don’t skip reading the vaccine info sheet before any shot, no matter how boring it looks like, especially the side affect part. And if it is an appointment for 3 shots, read all three, and think about whether side affect could be multiplied by 3 or more. After all, this is not like we can skip reading the fine prints when buying a house or a car. I still believe in Science, believe vaccines are beneficial. But just as I like dumplings, I could still get sick by eating them bought from food market. I’d rather make them myself because I know what goes in there. I can eat 20 in a meal, but do I want to eat 60? Why can’t we have the same thinking toward vaccines?
In case anyone wants it for a snail mail campaign:
Harpo Studios
1058 W. Washington Blvd.
Chicago, Il 60607
That’s the direct address of the studios.
Whaleto.com is a completely unreliable biased source that is completely deficient of ethics or evidence. If that is who you get your information from, then sadly, that is why you are so misinformed.
There are 2 different arguments going on here. One is if vaccines cause Autism. The other is if vaccines cause other bad reactions.
Certainly, some people have bad reactions to ingredients in the vaccines. When I get a flu shot I always get asked if I’m allergic to egg, because egg is in the ingredients. If I don’t tell them about my egg allergy and have a bad reaction, are vaccines bad or is it just my allergy? Then you have the people who have contracted the actual disease from the vaccine, which I understand is rare but can happen. So yes, there are some risks with vaccination, nobody can deny that. Parents have to weigh up which is more likely – a reaction to the vaccine or catching the disease. It will be a risk either way, I would suggest looking into the effects of either and make your decision.
The Autism debate is another issue altogether. Because: it is possible to have a bad reaction to a vaccine, but it is NOT possible to get autism from it. Autism is genetic, the gene has been found, and anyone who has worked with autistic kids will tell you it runs in the family, even if undiagnosed. You will often find autistic kids have Asperger parents, but since Aspergers wasn’t recognized until recently, most Aspies over 20 are not diagnosed.
I do agree with Jenny about “greening up” vaccines. They should be as safe, organic and healthy as possible. However I DISAGREE with the autism propaganda she spreads. She says she is not anti vaccine, but yet she scares parents into not vaccinating which is the same thing.
Hey Marie, I’m not sure what you mean if you think they could be “greener”, so if you can explain what you mean? How could a vaccine be more “organic”? Vaccines are as safe and “green” as they could possibly be already.
Any preservative to keep them safe from contaminants (that would pose a worse health risk) will never be accepted anyways by people who don’t understand why things like ethyl mercury are used. A simple organic chemistry course makes it clear why it would be used, and any claims that vaccines are not tested or ever “looked at” are so blatantly and patently false that I can’t understand how anyone can ever even say that. People also don’t really understand the term “organic”. Aluminum is a wonderful adjuvant, and I ask the brilliant folks who think there is a better “alternative” for this action to name one they would accept that does work better!
Even water is a chemical (and not an “organic” one), and there are many chemical reactions that happen in our body to keep us alive. Did you know that many of the foods we eat every day are extremely toxic to other beings on this planet because they don’t have the ability to have the reactions that allow them to eat those foods? I’m talking about even just protein digestion. Some fellow people lack the chemistry to be able to break protein down safely (they have PKU).
The worst reactions to vaccines are the allergic ones to the vaccine ingredients, but those are rare. I have a mild egg sensitivity too, and I’m able to get the flu shot no problem as well. If someone had a severe egg allergy, then they would not be wise to do that, but most of us know our limits there.
Are eggs not considered to be organic material? It really matters not if the chickens are free range or not in the production of those eggs, if there is an allergy to the proteins in the eggs, there is no way to change those proteins since those are just egg proteins no matter what.
Once people understand that viruses that use us hosts can only be grown certain ways in certain mediums, they understand that making effective vaccines is a very careful and complex science. You can’t just grow vaccines in anything. They are having a hard time growing H1N1 (aka swine flu virus) in the lab to develope an effective vaccine.
It’s not as simple as people like McCarthy seem to think.
On that note, why does McCarthy, who gets the most toxic substance ever to our bodies injected? Botox doesn’t kill us in small doses. If you eat foods like unpasteurized honey or milk with it though, it will kill you. She understands that in small doses thise very dangerous neurotoxin can benefit her, but she won’t accept that for vaccines??? Life saving measures are not acceptable, but botox injections for cosmetic (not life saving) are OKAY??? She is waayyy smarter than doctors and can okay botox to be injected, but can’t trust that vaccine makers are not putting toxic doses of things into vaccines???
This is wrong on so many levels, I’m now, well, speechless!
Thank you for speaking out against Oprah. Here are some suggestions for things we can do to make our voice heard. How about a “Boycott Oprah” t-shirt. How about some bad publicity for her at TAM7 or giving her the Pigasus award. How about some protests at her next commencement speech.
LOL @ the Botox comment. Well regarding Botox, she is an adult who can make her own choice to inject poison into her aging face. But Evan doesn’t get a choice about not being vaccinated.
More to the point, Jenny screeches about vaccines being dangerous, but she subjected Evan to several geniunely dangerous treatments. One was chelation, which is a process of removing heavy metals from the blood. It is supposed to be for war victims who were exposed to toxic gas. It can be very dangerous and children have died. Another product she used on Evan was Threelac, a probiotic that “eats” yeast. It causes terrible side effects and can cause septicemia. It is banned in Australia and Canada for this reason.
So in a nutshell – vaccines are bad because they cause autism, but you can do any kind of ridiculous treatment to a child if it will cure said autism.
I hope you don’t mind my sharing your wonderful letter! If this is too much, say the word and I will remove the page.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111156736130
Shawn
Proud Mom of an Aspie
http://spockisanautist.wordpress.com/
I always find it interesting that in the anti-vaccination debate, no one discusses the serious health risks to a child contracting measles (rubella). Although it is mild in most cases, the bottom line is that is can be serious enough to kill a child. The death rate is (apparently) 1 to 2 per 1000 reported cases.
It’s especially dangerous to women in their first 20 weeks of pregnancy as it can result in miscarriage.
To quote from the WHO web site, “# In 2007, there were 197 000 measles deaths globally – nearly 540 deaths every day or 22 deaths every hour. # Measles vaccination efforts have reaped major public health gains, resulting in a 74% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2007 worldwide – a drop of about 90% in the eastern Mediterranean and Africa regions.”
Yes, you have a choice as a parent not to vaccinate your child. But you must also accept the possible adverse consequences when you don’t vaccinate.
(BTW, in some cases vaccination can be extremely dangerous where a child goes into anaphylaxis as a result of being vaccinated. However, the risk is about 0.65 cases per million doses. Much, much lower than the death rate for measles.)
[...] should not even seem debatable. Evolution is one of them, and, apparently, so is vaccination. My open letter to Oprah sparked an unexpected flurry of responses from many scientists, parents, and concerned citizens, [...]
Vaccines damage and kill. That is fact. $2 billion paid to vaccine injured families proves it. How is it that you can break a vaccine on the floor and the HAZMAT guys have to clean it up yet the same vaccine can be injected into a baby’s blood? Does that make sense?
Vaccines are not 100% ’safe and effective’ so the writer needs to pull their unqualified support for them. She seems smart- why the blinders?
I have unbelievable respect for Oprah. Ditto X 2 for Jenny M. These are brave women- no question.
“Vaccines damage and kill.”
True, but so do measles, polio, mumps, whooping cough, etc. It’s a question of relative risk.
Automobile safety belts damage and kill, too, but very, very less so than they protect and save. The same argument applies to vaccines. Looking at the actual numbers, it is very clear that there is greater risk, on average, to not vaccinating than to vaccinating.
Of course, this does not reduce the anguish caused in the very rare cases where a vaccine or a safety belt causes damage or death. But similarly, not vaccinating or not wearing safety belts does not reduce the anquish caused by a disease or a car crash. It boils down to relative risk.
“$2 billion paid to vaccine injured families proves it.”
Actually, this does not prove it. What it proves is that in a number of lawsuits, either a monitary judgement was awarded or a negotiated settlement was reached. It MAY be true that in some of those cases, a vaccine caused injury, but the fact there was a payment does not prove that point (just as than the fact there are vaccine-related lawsuits that DO NOT result in a monitary award does not prove vaccines are safe.)
In many cases, negotiated settlements are reached, w/o admission of right or wrong by either side, simply to end an expensive and time-consuming legal process.
“Vaccines are not 100% ’safe and effective’ so the writer needs to pull their unqualified support for them.”
Nobody here is making that claim. There are risks with vaccines which are well documented. Again, it is a question of weighing the relative risks. Raising this as a straw man is itself disingenuous or misinformed.
“…why the blinders?”
Right back at you.
[...] should not even seem debatable. Evolution is one of them, and, apparently, so is vaccination. My open letter to Oprah sparked an unexpected flurry of responses from many scientists, parents, and concerned citizens, [...]
I am a birthmother of 4, mother of 3, nurse, grandmother of one and a God-fearing 52 year old woman who believes vaccines cause disease.
My 23 month old grandson has never received a vaccine in his life. He had a runny nose and sniffles which lasted for 3 days at age 7 months. He has had several fevers which fought off viruses and bacteria, but he has never been debilitated with an illness. He has never taken an antibiotic and he has never had an ear infection. This is only one case to compare with the hundreds of vaccinated children I’ve seen in the past 5 years with countless illnesses; ear infections, asthma, pneumonia, ADD, ADHD, allergies, gastrointestinal problems, cancers, etc.
All of these illnesses mean profit to the pharmaceutical giants. One of the pharmaceutical reps who visited our clinic recently told me that the oil companies hold most of the stock in pharmaceuticals.
I recently came across a book published in 1919 by Charles M Higgins where the author is addressing the current president Woodrow Wilson..”As soon, therefore, as this crushing fact of the great danger of vaccination to human health and life enters the mind and conscience of the mass of people, and is fully grasped by the legislative, the judicial and the executive minds of the country, from whom it has been so long concealed by medical falsehood in high places-this enlightenment will, I firmly believe, result in the permanent abolishment of all compulsory vaccination, if not the penal prohibition of general vaccination, as being now more dangerous than natural smallpox and to that great fact and to this final and prophetic thought, Mr. President, I ask your careful attention in closing this exposure of vaccination horrors and medical mendacities.” Respectfully submitted, Chas. M. Higgins, Dated at 271 Ninth St., Brooklyn, NY, US Constitution Day, September 17, 1919
If people only understood how the wonderful God given immune system works, they would allow natural immunity to fight off disease as it was designed.
Secretory IgA is the name of the normal antibody response to all airborne and ingested pathogens, entering the mouth and nose. found in saliva and secretions of the gastrointestonal and respiratory tracts. IgA protects against viral infections, bacteria and toxins and decreases attachment of pathogens to mucosal surfaces. IgA signals the release of B & T cells. B cells produce humoral immunity by releasing antibodies and T cells produce cellular immunity. Cytotoxic T cells are the little “pac men” which devour and neutralize viruses and bacteria.
When a pathogen (vaccine) is injected into a muscle, IgA is transmuted into IgE whereby B cells are hyperactivated, producing pathologic amounts of antibodies and T cells are suppressed. (The two poles of the immune system have a reciprocal relationship in that when the activity of one pole is increased, the other must decrease.) The suppression of this cell mediated response is a key factor in the development of cancers and life-threatening infections.
Vaccines suppress the cell-mediated response and rather than “preventing” diseases these pathologic organisms produced by hyperactive B antibodies continue to circulate through the body attacking the mucosa of the GI tract, the pancreas, the respiratory tract, articular surface of joints, and skin to name a few.
When T cells are suppressed and B cells are hyperactivated, the pathogenic viruses and bacteria cannot be eliminated and remain in the body causing chronic disease where they attack the body; also known as auto-immune diseases.* The pathogens which cannot be removed by the “pac men” cells grow and mutate as the body is exposed to ever more antigens and toxins.
*These findings are published in a scientific paper entitled, “B CELLS MOVE TO CENTRE STAGE: NOVEL OPPORTUNITIES FOR AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE TREATMENT” by Dr. Jeffrey Browning Senior Director, Department of Immunobiology, Biogen-Idec
I plead with everyone who has or will have children to think twice before submitting to vaccinations. Please look at the opinions of Dr. Rebecca Carley, Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, and Dr. Eisenstein before injecting toxins into your child’s tiny body.
I honestly can’t say that I read your entire post. I read the first paragraph. I was not willing to continue after reading that your grandson who was never vaccinated for anything never had a terrible illness while the many other vaccinated children you have seen over the years did get sick. Do you realize that as a nurse, you are extremely likely to come into contact with sick kids…it’s the nature of the job.
By the way, I hope your daughter tells the parents of your grandson’s little playmates that he is not vaccinated…especially the ones who may have infants.
That “concerned mother” is an idiot. I could not stomach to read her entire post, but I skimmed enough to catch the “wonderful god-given immune system” crap.
I suppose she doesn’t believe any of the numerous plagues that hit Europe in centuries past?
Hi,
Its quite interesting how I stumbled on this website and even made an effort to comment, nonetheless as you may have guessed I am not a fan or hater of Oprah. But I happen to have got home past midnight, and turned on the TV and guess who….
Either way, I thought I would watch a bit as they were talking about facebook and as i do think its awesome, i thought I would see what they were saying. Although everything they were saying about how great it is for certain people (or depending how you use it)…putting it on Oprah was such corporate BS! It just undermines how useful facebook actually is (again for people who need it to stay in touch with pple). Oh now that Oprah said it, I bet pple are naive enough to use facebook for that only reason which means Oprah and Facebook win…
One last thing, all the people who wrote anything negative about the “concerned mother” who felt she could say on this site what she really felt – maybe you are the idiots. I am not saying that I agreee with what she is saying or disagree…..but just because you do not agree with what someone says, it does not make her an idiot….it just makes you who commented ignorant enough to think that you are CLEARLY right!
[...] McCarthy a bigger platform, including a blog on Oprah.com, has some observers concerned. An “open letter” posted May 11 by science graduate student Shirley Wu asking that Winfrey reconsider the [...]
The debate is not as “over” as those who have posted here would like it to be. This came through just today. Vaccines can increase the risk of cancer. The medical literature DOCUMENTS a long list of serious medical conditions associated with vaccines. Those who 100% promote the use of vaccines should be aware of the potential hazards. They can be more serious–and life long–than the short-term infection they are supposed to prevent.
(and oh, BTW, you can get the vaccine and still get the disease….)
ARTICLE: Vaccination alters the immune system
http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Drug/310520090733_vaccination_alters_the_immune_system.html
Sunday May 31, 2009 — A new study published online on Nov 15, 2008 and scheduled to appear in the July 2009 issue of Cancer Causes Control suggests that some vaccines may increase risk of cancers such as non-Hodgkin lymphoma [NHL], while others may reduce the risk.
The study led by H. A. Lankes and colleagues at Feinberg School of Medicine of Northwestern University showed influenza vaccination was linked to a 53 percent increase in the risk of NHL.
Factors that alter the immune system have been known to affect the risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. But previous studies are inconsistent.
Lankes and colleagues analyzed data on 387 patients with NHL and 535 controls who were enrolled in a study conducted in Nebraska between 1999 and 2002. Considered information included vaccination for tetanus, polio, influenza, smallpox, and tuberculosis, as well as important environmental factors – data collected by telephone interview.
They found that study participants who had an influenza vaccine at any time were at a 98 percent increased risk of follicular lymphoma and at an 88 percent increased risk of diffuse large B cell lymphoma.
Those who received a polio or smallpox vaccination were at a 41 reduced risk of NHL or at a 29 percent reduced risk.
An analysis by histogic subtypes showed that the polio vaccine was associated with a 45 percent lowered risk of follicular lymphoma, and a 71 percent lower risk of chronic lymphocytic leukemia/small lymphocytic lymphomas. And the smallpox vaccination was linked to a 59 percent lowered risk of marginal zone lymphoma.
The tetanus and tuberculosis vaccinations were not associated with risk of the cancers of concern.
I’m not getting how this relates to opposing Oprah’s support an ex playmate who encourages not getting vaccinated because it causes autism (in her own mind).
FYI: Preventable, life threatening diseases are prevented by vaccines. I’ve never gotten a flu shot and don’t plan to. However, thanks to my mom, I didn’t get the measles or polio. I also don’t have autism.
[...] recently Shirley Wu posted a letter to Oprah on her blog. While I am not the first and certainly not the most prominent blogger to share this, I [...]
[...] to the eyes.EW:Ummm… this is supposed to be Science, not a California Glossy. It seems that pretty looks is causing major body count in the States. Otherwise, HTML+CSS can likely beat any pretty looks of PDF, or at least match [...]
[...] Deepak thinks Shirley Wu has the best blog out there for communicating science while Hari loved her open letter to Oprah [...]
Pharmacists support Shirley!
I suppose she doesn’t believe any of the numerous plagues that hit Europe in centuries past?
Why are you posting links to porn sites? I’d ask the lovely blog owner to delete this post if possible please. It’s really disguting. Just a warning… the above link in a’s post is not safe for work or if you have any children around that might see what comes up when it is clicked. I must go wash my eyeballs out now, thank you.
Yeah – I don’t have moderation on for all comments yet. For the most part, the spam detector works well, but people have posted a lot of links in response to this post which I’ve been accepting so perhaps the algorithm is “learning” to be more lax… and I was away from internet access for a few days so didn’t delete it as quickly as I otherwise would have.
If stuff like this keeps happening I’ll turn on full comment moderation.
Just a note…stopjenny is not referring to me! LOL …